404 Club

[spectre6000]

That's the coolest one to pass through here in a while. Possibly ever. The very specific history, to my mind at least, is what really puts it over the top. Nevermind the transformation!

[AndyHull]

4 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

That's the coolest one to pass through here in a while. Possibly ever. The very specific history, to my mind at least, is what really puts it over the top. Nevermind the transformation!

Thanks. It is I an interesting piece. I should probably have taken more pictures of the strip down and cleaning process. There was some "fascinating" gunk inside the thing.

It has a split in the base plate and a small screw to allow relative adjustment between the lever and the escape wheel, presumably to allow the manufacturer to dial in that distance for best performance, thus negating the need for very high precision of either component.

The barrel also drives both the minute and hour hand wheels, and has a built in slip clutch. so it has an interesting stacked construction. All of this makes for a very simple but obviously robust calibre. Robust since it is still capable of ticking away nicely after around a hundred and twenty years. It is some kind of Roskopf design, but I didn't find any obvious makers marks, nor did I find anything matching in ranfft. The nearest is probably something like a Liga 315 which is very similar in external appearance.

As to Mr Walter Pamment, I believe this "Walter Albert Pamment" may well be him -> https://www.geni.com/people/Walter-Pamment/6000000002814674500

In the 1901 census he is listed as Age 22 - Walter Albert Pamment worked in London as a Watchmaker. He resided in 1901 at 10 Galena Road, Hammersmith, London, England, which is a few streets away from Askew Road.

I didn't follow the breadcrumbs any further, but certainly it is nice to see a little of the history of these old time pieces.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by AndyHull

[Klassiker]

This would be a poorer forum without you, Andy. Always worth a read, thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyHull]

I was following up on the earlier post, and decided to use google maps to see that address.

It turns out the previous search had actually turned up a property at 157 not 137 Askew Road.

Here is the actual  shop at 137 as it appears today.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5023229,-0.2426463,3a,75y,45.82h,96.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipPgxr7ytJqgR7cwIvRuRqWEbDmKFkMiYChoX9vZ!2e10!3e11!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

As you can see, it is now a fancy Butchers shop called "The Ginger Pig".

10 Galena Road, on the other hand appears to have "suffered" at the hands of the developers. I'm pretty sure it didn't look like this in 1901

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4934984,-0.2329808,3a,75y,147.77h,85.07t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjqynFIvUAXr-9sLSJkiTQw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DjqynFIvUAXr-9sLSJkiTQw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D50.937267%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

57 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

This would be a poorer forum without you, Andy. Always worth a read, thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eyup Klassiker, you ok fella ?

[Klassiker]

Fine, thanks!

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Fine, thanks!

Ok mate just checking you were ok.

[AndyHull]

They told me to put my watch back this morning, so I put it back to the early 1960s.

Another 404 club member brought back from the dead. Its BFG 866 was overbanked and in need of a clean. It also needed a crown.

Surprisingly its lume still works. Its not exactly Lumibrite(tm), but it does work.

Edited October 30, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, AndyHull said:

They told me to put my watch back this morning, so I put it back to the early 1960s.

Another 404 club member brought back from the dead. Its BFG 866 was overbanked and in need of a clean. It also needed a crown.

Surprisingly its lume still works. Its not exactly Lumibrite(tm), but it does work.

Strange coincidence with the shuttle cock space capsule on this dial. Finally revisited my grandfather's watch after almost destroying it a year ago. Nearly complete so had a little research hour on Russian watches and Sekonda created in 1966 a few months before i was born. Made in all of the Russian watch factories.  Interestingly enough the first watch in space was a Sturmanskie, now known as the Sturmanskie Gargarin. I wasn't aware the Swiss had a space program in the 60's, maybe they didnt but played a lot of badminton 

[grsnovi]

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

...with the shuttle cock space capsule on this dial.

Is it on the dial or on the crystal?

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Is it on the dial or on the crystal?

It goes around the dial attached to the second hand.  I like it .

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

It goes around the dial attached to the second hand.  I like it .

It sure does. I presume it is meant to represent the NASA Mercury capsule.

.. or maybe project Gemini, in the run up to the race to the moon.

Either way it is almost certainly from the early to mid 1960s when the world was hooked on the race into space.

[Klassiker]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

It goes around the dial attached to the second hand.

A 60 second orbit. That's fast! And what about the orientation? Is that the direction these things fly when they are in orbit? I seem to remember a picture  (PG-Tips tea cards?) of one re-entering the atmosphere with the fat end down and glowing, and it is pointy-end up at the splash-down, isn't it?

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

A 60 second orbit. That's fast! And what about the orientation? Is that the direction these things fly when they are in orbit? I seem to remember a picture  (PG-Tips tea cards?) of one re-entering the atmosphere with the fat end down and glowing, and it is pointy-end up at the splash-down, isn't it?

Haha yes matey. Pointy end first going up, fat heatproof burning up on reentry end first coming back down.

[grsnovi]

7 hours ago, AndyHull said:

.. or maybe project Gemini,

I think you're right about Gemini, the Mercury capsule was the same but without all of the stuff on the back end.

So, what is the material of this decoration? It must be pretty thin, the lume shines through it as if it's not even there.

[AndyHull]

57 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

So, what is the material of this decoration? It must be pretty thin, the lume shines through it as if it's not even there.

I suspect it is acrylic or clear polystyrene. I guess it could be cellulose acetate too. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, AndyHull said:

It sure does. I presume it is meant to represent the NASA Mercury capsule.

.. or maybe project Gemini, in the run up to the race to the moon.

Either way it is almost certainly from the early to mid 1960s when the world was hooked on the race into space.

Here is my tresured Apollo 14 command module photo taken 20 years ago at the Nasa Kennedy Space Center. The follow up to the failed Apollo 13 mission. Named the Kity Hawk, i think it was an 11 day mission with 30 odd hours of moon walking. It had barriers around it so no sit in and play astronauts but i managed to sneak a hand pat of something that orbited the moon and brought its crew safely home. Behind it is one the 3 remaining extra Saturn V rockets, over 100 meters in length. Amazing visit and experience just to stand in awe of it. 

[AndyHull]

Apollo 14 the "Moon tree" flight. It arguably included some of the most interesting science done on the moon during the Apollo program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_14

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

19 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Apollo 14 the "Moon tree" flight. It arguably included some of the most interesting science done on the moon during the Apollo program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_14

 

Ah i didnt know that. Seeds taken to the moon and then grown once back one earth. I wonder how they are doin ?

[AndyHull]

13 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ah i didnt know that. Seeds taken to the moon and then grown once back one earth. I wonder how they are doin ?

 

Not bad, it seems. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_tree

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

 

Not bad, it seems. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_tree

 

Haha cool. I may need to visit and take a small cutting. Coincidentally just about finished my grandfather's Sekonda a Raketa 2609 ha. I wasnt aware that the name Raketa means space rocket in Russian, to honor Gargarin's first man in space flight in 1961. One brave dude. My movement has SU stamped on the train bridge, assuming for Soviet Union,  this isn't on the other 3 2609s i have. Would love to date it if anyone has an idea. The caseback has a serial number. Wondering if the end two numbers are at least the year. 14th December 1975 ?

[AndyHull]

I don't think you can infer a date from the case back serial numbers on Raketa watches. There are some subtle design changes in the mechanisms over the years, and also the later Russian mechanical watches may say Russia rather than USSR on the dial, putting them post 1991/2.

As I recall there are some of the scanned Raketa catalogues on line (which I can't find right now) and a few USSR era watch sites and forums (some in Russian).

Here for example -> https://www.russian-watches.info/category/raketa-watches/

There is also a site that deals with the modern stuff (post 2010) here -> https://www.raketawatchclub.com/catalogs

Lock your wallet in a drawer before you look at those sites, there are some tempting items there.

Edited November 1, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I don't think you can infer a date from the case back serial numbers on Raketa watches. There are some subtle design changes in the mechanisms over the years, and also the later Russian mechanical watches may say Russia rather than USSR on the dial, putting them post 1991/2.

As I recall there are some of the scanned Raketa catalogues on line (which I can't find right now) and a few USSR era watch sites and forums (some in Russian).

Here for example -> https://www.russian-watches.info/category/raketa-watches/

There is also a site that deals with the modern stuff (post 2010) here -> https://www.raketawatchclub.com/catalogs

Lock your wallet in a drawer before you look at those sites, there are some tempting items there.

Appreciate that Andy, i did think it was a long shot. Its quite important for me to date it as it will establish whether the watch was my grandfather's or my father's. Different emotions and sentiments relate to that fact.

[AndyHull]

Not sure if these will help as they are Poljot rather than Raketa, but they do give some style clues for the era.
I can't find these two on line any more, but if the original individual who posted them objects to me posting them here, I'll take them down.
So far as I can see this is "fair use" since I'm not profiting from them.

Post some pictures of your watch and we can maybe have a stab at dating it.

1966 Poljot (Mashpriborintorg).pdf 932786006_1971Poljot_ocr.pdf

 

In the course of trying to answer your question, I dug through my Sekondas and my "USSR" junk box and found this guy.

I gave up on it previously because the hairspring looked too mangled to save, but I had a crack at it this evening and it actually turned out to be a lot simpler than I thought, so I now have two of these classic TV faced 2628.H based USSR era beauties. Oddly this model has no case back serial number.

This one is currently running about +/- 6 sec per day, and I had the other one running pretty much to COSC standards a while back. They have a nice big balance, and although they are a little "agricultural" in construction they are pretty robust and can perform surprisingly well if serviced and set up carefully.

Edited November 1, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:58 PM, AndyHull said:

Not sure if these will help as they are Poljot rather than Raketa, but they do give some style clues for the era.
I can't find these two on line any more, but if the original individual who posted them objects to me posting them here, I'll take them down.
So far as I can see this is "fair use" since I'm not profiting from them.

Post some pictures of your watch and we can maybe have a stab at dating it.

1966 Poljot (Mashpriborintorg).pdf 1.98 MB · 3 downloads 932786006_1971Poljot_ocr.pdf 8.02 MB · 2 downloads

 

In the course of trying to answer your question, I dug through my Sekondas and my "USSR" junk box and found this guy.

I gave up on it previously because the hairspring looked too mangled to save, but I had a crack at it this evening and it actually turned out to be a lot simpler than I thought, so I now have two of these classic TV faced 2628.H based USSR era beauties. Oddly this model has no case back serial number.

This one is currently running about +/- 6 sec per day, and I had the other one running pretty much to COSC standards a while back. They have a nice big balance, and although they are a little "agricultural" in construction they are pretty robust and can perform surprisingly well if serviced and set up carefully.

Thanks for the help Andy. I realy appreciate it. The watch is a simple round case . Roman numerals on the dial no date , sword hands, i think the dial is enamelled as its pretty tough . A small paint chip shows a thick paint or enamelling.