404 Club

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Can we divide job lot prices into equal amounts and pick the best watch from it. Or is that cheating? 

That is allowed. The "rules" are pretty flexible.  (i.e. there are no real hard and fast rules).
Postage should be "reasonable", whatever that means to you. I would draw the line at £1000.00 postage on a £4.00 Rolex, but that is up to you. I have bent the rules slightly on occasions, so  a £5.00 watch with free postage would be within the spirit of the rules I would suggest. 

[spectre6000]

Lol! The joke of the 404 moniker is the HTTP response status code "Not found" (all credit to Andy on that one), and it's already priced in Queeniebucks. Convert from there to your currency of choice; it's about 5 Freedombucks at the moment.

Believe it or not, you have it much easier due to cultural reasons. We tend to throw out old things much more freely here, and lack the industrial/technological romance you guys have. Additionally, America's cultural/economic party trick has always been taking some bougie thing, and figuring out a way to make it mass produceable and inexpensive. That can lead to some super awesome things (it's actually one of the reasons for my daily wear watch), but also leads to a lot of cheap crap.

Shipping here from abroad can be quite inexpensive if there are favorable trade policies in place, but it can just as easily be much more expensive since everything either has to hitch a ride on a boat or plane. Russia used to be a good source of inexpensive watches, but that has obviously evaporated. Last time I looked, pickin's weren't just slim, but nil. Inflation isn't helping the matter at all either (which is worldwide in case anyone feels the need to blame their favorite local politician).

I tend to find the most interesting watches in the UK, but shipping has always been $30/£25 or so, which doesn't meet my standard of "reasonable" for these purposes. I've done plenty of looking in various European countries, but there seems to be a general unwillingness to ship to the US. During the pandemic, shipping from Germany on a pair of watches I bought was quoted at $5 or something, but then ended up being $60 before it actually made it here (transaction mutually cancelled on that one). 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

Believe it or not, you have it much easier due to cultural reasons.

Its fairly cheap to live here, medical bills are non existant if you are prepared to wait to have anything treated. But that is slowly changing and we may not have that for too much longer. My policy is look after yourself and just dont get ill !     And houseing area taxes arnt too bad either. 

[RichardHarris123]

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Its fairly cheap to live here, medical bills are non existant if you are prepared to wait to have anything treated. But that is slowly changing and we may not have that for too much longer. My policy is look after yourself and just dont get ill !     And houseing area taxes arnt too bad either. 

Hehe.  For you Americans or any other nationally, National Insurance is meant to pay for health care, including dentistry.  My National insurance has just increased but I can't get to see a GP or a dentist. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned m

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hehe.  For you Americans or any other nationally, National Insurance is meant to pay for health care, including dentistry.  My National insurance has just increased but I can't get to see a GP or a dentist. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned m

Haha. Rich try asking an American how much his health care is. NI is also for our pension if thats still around by the time we reach pension age.

[RichardHarris123]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Rich try asking an American how much his health care is. NI is also for our pension if thats still around by the time we reach pension age.

Hehe again.  I'm 54 and I've got about £5000 in my pension fund, I'm working until death.  True definition of mortgage,until death, mort means death. I'm working until I die.

[Neverenoughwatches]

46 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hehe again.  I'm 54 and I've got about £5000 in my pension fund, I'm working until death.  True definition of mortgage,until death, mort means death. I'm working until I die.

Haha behave you wally are you drinking and getting all meloncholey with yourself ? Stop being all woe is me lol . 

47 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hehe again.  I'm 54 and I've got about £5000 in my pension fund, I'm working until death.  True definition of mortgage,until death, mort means death. I'm working until I die.

Look on the bright side you can pull 25% from your fund soon, so youll have 1250.00 to go buy yourself a nice second hand swanky lathe to start repairing more watches with.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[AndyHull]

I may have mentioned before that 'you can't have too many multimeters' and others here have hinted that there is no such thing as too  many watches, so why not combine both.

A volt meter in a metal pocket watch case, with what looks suspiciously like possibly an asbestos infused flying lead.

I'm pretty sure this would fail petty much every part of every electrical safety standard the world over.

Time to don the hazmat suit and the rubber gloves perhaps.

[Kalanag]

16V max. is good for car batteries and their voltage regulator. So no need for rubber gloves 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Kalanag

[AndyHull]

53 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

So no need for rubber gloves 

Its going to get pretty toasty if you short out a car battery with it. OK It isn't likely to melt or burst into flames.. at least not instantly, but it will get pretty hot. I suspect if you stick it onto a tractor battery or a substantial LiPo pack, you could melt it (or set fire to the battery in the case of the LiPo). I guess the rubber gloves would hide your fingerprints when they start inspecting the evidence.

I do wonder what its purpose was. Maybe someone was using it in a garage, or perhaps with a model railway or some other low voltage application. It does look pretty Heath Robinson, so I doubt if it was a commercial offering, more like something someone threw together out of junk they had lying around.

I found a picture of my commercially produced "Pocket Voltmeter" from around the 1940s.

As you can see, there is a certain similarity, although the commercial offering is not made of conductive material.

Edited May 9, 2022 by AndyHull

[Kalanag]

Here I would use rubber gloves 

 

[AndyHull]

Well that was an interesting rabbit hole to dive into.

 

Apparently there were similar commercial offerings for "Pocket Voltmeters" in what look suspiciously like pocket watch cases.

Source -> https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknown_jt_voltmeter_pocket_meter_jt.html#

I wonder if this was due to the ready availability of old stock pocket watch cases in the 1930s and 1940s.

5 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Here I would use rubber gloves 

.. and maybe a dust mask. That also looks suspiciously like an asbestos clad cable. Having said that, I  grew up using a clothes iron that with the benefit of hindsight obviously had an asbestos jacketed cable and it doesn't seem to have finished me off, so far. The switch gear in our old cooker, and even the stove pipe were also asbestos back in the day.

"Radio Voltmenter".. makes sense. the low voltage would be to check filament voltages and the higher range would be to check B+ for the tubes. I still would be pretty wary of poking around in a valve set with a metal meter. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

21 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Its fairly cheap to live here, medical bills are non existant if you are prepared to wait to have anything treated. But that is slowly changing and we may not have that for too much longer. My policy is look after yourself and just dont get ill !     And houseing area taxes arnt too bad either. 

I was referring solely to finding cheap watches. No other social commentary intended, or even considered as being interpreted as an intent.

11 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I may have mentioned before that 'you can't have too many multimeters' and others here have hinted that there is no such thing as too  many watches, so why not combine both.

A volt meter in a metal pocket watch case, with what looks suspiciously like possibly an asbestos infused flying lead.

I'm pretty sure this would fail petty much every part of every electrical safety standard the world over.

Time to don the hazmat suit and the rubber gloves perhaps.

Congrats on posting the coolest thing I've seen... possibly this entire year. Did you snag that as a 404?

[AndyHull]

11 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Congrats on posting the coolest thing I've seen... possibly this entire year. Did you snag that as a 404?

Thanks. Yes, it cost the princely sum of £2.50 plus postage.

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

On 5/8/2022 at 7:04 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

I was referring solely to finding cheap watches. No other social commentary intended, or even considered as being interpreted as an intent.

Ok sorry lol. I thought it was a diverse comment on public economics. 

[AndyHull]

Unknown manufacturer ladies pin set cylinder movement in running condition (according to the listing).

The dial is in very nice condition, with only a slight hairline crack around the 9 o'clock mark. I'm pretty certain i have a minute hand, or a pair of hands to fit it.

Not sure who made it, possibly LeCoultre, but realistically it could be anybody. LeCoultre keep their database of serial numbers an in house, closely guarded secret. Well they will share information on individual movements for hard cash of course, but I'm not about to send them 260 Swiss Francs just to find out that my hunch is correct, since this item came well within the rules of the 404 club.

[oldhippy]

Known as a five bar cylinder movement. They are French/Swiss made know to be made some place on the the border of the two countries. 

[AndyHull]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Known as a five bar cylinder movement. They are French/Swiss made know to be made some place on the the border of the two countries. 

It is reasonably well finished, and unlike a couple of similar scrap movements I have, this one has a serial number, suggesting it was produced by a volume producer. That doesn't make it a LeCoultre, as similar movements were produced in large numbers, by a number of manufacturers at the time,  but it does suggest it wasn't a small back street operation. All of this is mere speculation of course. As a manufacturer, you can stamp any number you like on them obviously.

The 1 and the 7 of the serial number appear to be stamped harder than the other four digits, so maybe they were done in a separate operation and the other digits added elsewhere in production, who knows.

Whatever the story, it is a neat little piece of watch making engineering history, and if it runs, for two pounds fifty, I'm hardly going to complain.

[RichardHarris123]

I have several of them. This is what I did with one of them.

[oldhippy]

I have seen some really nice dials on these movements. Its funny there must be thousands of these movement around but you cannot interchange any of the parts they are all individual which tells me they were not made on a factory production level.   

[AndyHull]

12 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I have seen some really nice dials on these movements. Its funny there must be thousands of these movement around but you cannot interchange any of the parts they are all individual which tells me they were not made on a factory production level.   

I also get the feeling that the movements were often hacked about a bit to get them to fit whatever cases were available.

If you look at the bridges in the 3rd and 4th picture it appears that two of the bridges and one screw have been "reduced" probably with a file, presumably to allow the thing to fit in the case. This does seem a little crude, and again suggests that this may not have been a top tier manufacturer, but then again, knowing what I do about industry...  deadlines to meet, corners get cut. Quite literally in this case.

15 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

This is what I did with one of them.

Nice. Both Weetabix and Mars bars entered production in 1932. Well there's something I didn't know before.

Edited May 18, 2022 by AndyHull

[RichardHarris123]

3 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

I also get the feeling that the movements were often hacked about a bit to get them to fit whatever cases were available.

If you look at the bridges in the 3rd and 4th picture it appears that two of the bridges and one screw have been "reduced" probably with a file, presumably to allow the thing to fit in the case. This does seem a little crude, and again suggests that this may not have been a top tier manufacturer, but then again, knowing what I do about industry...  deadlines to meet, corners get cut. Quite literally in this case.

It could be an after market adaption. 

4 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

I also get the feeling that the movements were often hacked about a bit to get them to fit whatever cases were available.

If you look at the bridges in the 3rd and 4th picture it appears that two of the bridges and one screw have been "reduced" probably with a file, presumably to allow the thing to fit in the case. This does seem a little crude, and again suggests that this may not have been a top tier manufacturer, but then again, knowing what I do about industry...  deadlines to meet, corners get cut. Quite literally in this case.

Nice. Both Weetabix and Mars bars entered production in 1932. Well there's something I didn't know before.

We didn't either.  The mother in law loved it. 

[AndyHull]

 

Another basket case on its way. This time it is a Kienzle (050/04) pocket watch from ca. 1955.

Allegedly the balance is good, but it has no hands (well actually part of the hour hand remains) and no crystal.

The dial looks like it might prove a bit of challenge too. Lets see if I can get it looking presentable again.

Edited May 23, 2022 by AndyHull

[RichardHarris123]

5 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

 

Another basket case on its way. This time it is a Kienzle (050/04) pocket watch from ca. 1955.

Allegedly the balance is good, but it has no hands (well actually part of the hour hand remains) and no crystal.

The dial looks like it might prove a bit of challenge too. Lets see if I can get it looking presentable again.

I'm looking forward to seeing it, it couldn't look much worse.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

 

Another basket case on its way. This time it is a Kienzle (050/04) pocket watch from ca. 1955.

Allegedly the balance is good, but it has no hands (well actually part of the hour hand remains) and no crystal.

The dial looks like it might prove a bit of challenge too. Lets see if I can get it looking presentable again.

I'm not sure who is the basket case the watch or you.