404 Club

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

May I ask how did you open the case back? I sold two of these as scrap metal as I could not open them and I was not so interested however someone asked me now to work on one of these now.

This one had a classic screw back.  Just used my back wrench.  That was a dead giveaway that it was not a Rolex.

I learned from someone on this forum that when faced with a tough screw back, to glue a nut on it and remove it with a crescent wrench.  Then put the back with nut in acetone and the nut will release.  I have done this once and it worked great.

[luiazazrambo]

4 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

This one had a classic screw back.  Just used my back wrench.  That was a dead giveaway that it was not a Rolex.

I learned from someone on this forum that when faced with a tough screw back, to glue a nut on it and remove it with a crescent wrench.  Then put the back with nut in acetone and the nut will release.  I have done this once and it worked great.

Thank you for the quick answer. What glue is used to glue the nut?

I managed to remove the back with my rubber blower, as I have no rubber ball I used one of my blower instead.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, luiazazrambo said:

What glue is used to glue the nut?

superglue  (cyanoacrylic) . 

[spectre6000]

Wouldn't have thought superglue would have handled that shear stress... I recently rewatched the Mythbusters episode on superglue. I either routinely underestimate it, or use it wrong... Crazy stuff.

[LittleWatchShop]

6 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Wouldn't have thought superglue would have handled that shear stress... I recently rewatched the Mythbusters episode on superglue. I either routinely underestimate it, or use it wrong... Crazy stuff.

I was a little surprised as well, but it worked.

[LittleWatchShop]

7 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

shear stress

test

[AndyHull]

I couldn't make my mind up whether this was better posted in the  "What have you got coming in the mail" or  was more of a "404 Club" thread item.

So before I get overwhelmed by choice anxiety, here we go.

A "pile of junk" including a couple of pocket watches.

The Bernex is the one that caught my eye.

The Bernex name  appears on  some very nice watches.
The style suggests 1930s, but it may well be much more recent. 1960s perhaps.

I also suspect it is chrome rather than stainless or rhodium, but for the price, I'm hardly in a position to complain. Time will tell what exactly it is.

Since it claims to be shock protected, there is a reasonable chance that it simply needs a service to bring it back to life. I should have a suitable bow for it in my stash, and possibly even a crystal, if those marks prove to be cracks.

The scruffy pocket watch  with the messed up dial is probably nothing special but you never know.

The dial is such a mess, that I can't make up my mind if that is a paper replacement pasted in place of an enamel original, or what exactly is going on there. Hopefully the balance is complete, but that is a pretty long shot given the over all condition of the rest of the watch.

The Rotary Quartz is possibly an early Swiss quartz, and the Avia 25 jewel automatic might be worth finding a suitable case for if I can make it run.

Most of the rest will probably go in the spares pile, unless there is something particularly worth saving.

All in the whole lot cost a fiver, therefore whatever is savable almost certainly qualifies for the 404 club.

Edited December 18, 2021 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

A Timex Marlin non runner,  probably from the mid sixties (1964?), heading for the 404 club.

EDIT: The seller messaged me to say they have posted this, and added

"... I have also found another watch which may be of some use, for spares, this watch does not work as the crown is missing, but it does have a decent strap on it, if it is no good to you to pop it in the bin..."

So it looks like I may have a freebie genuine "mystery" watch for the club too.

Edited December 22, 2021 by AndyHull

[KarlvonKoln]

I don't often get to post in "404" (not much luck finding such deals in my area) but recently I took a small batch of "non-runners" in trade for a few battery replacements on other watches.  Given what I charge for battery installation, it worked out to about $3 to $4 per watch here.  I figured, at worst, about 3/4 can be made to run again and be sold, and the remainder I would keep for parts, and still come out ahead.  And so far, my estimate has been on par.  Most run if I put a new battery in, so they will be cleaned and given what they need before I put them up for sale.  Likewise with the mechanical ones.

The tiny, little black-dialed Seiko I have given to my daughter Catharine because she fell in love with it.  And her slender wrists are the only ones in this house that the strap will fit around.

The Boy Scout Timex, in the upper left, if it is to run again, will need a new mainspring.  That is going to be fun arranging that.

And many will need new straps.  All in all, I will be happily busy for a time.

[IanC]

I bought 4 watches for a total sum of £8 so was not too surprised to find one had virtually no innards, another little Lora tank style had a broken balance wheel pivot and the pallet lever looking dodgy, a watch with Ingersoll marked inside the case but nothing on the dial, and a working fashion watch marked La Junta that seems to only run for a few hours as if the mainspring is not fully loading up.  The Lora has a hand scratched message on the back that is rather interesting, it says " With all my Love Stella Rena (accent over the n) Xmas 1945.

[spectre6000]

La Junta, huh? Interesting name. That's a town here in Colorado (my next door neighbor grew up there). I looked it up on Wikipedia to see if there is some other, higher profile thing it could be named after, but the best contender is a term for a collection of Native American tribes that were in a particular region nearby, but that seems like a stretch. The town is a stretch too though; small and nothing of interest I'm aware of. It's out in eastern Colorado, so not even very scenic. Interesting name for a watch...

Edited January 25, 2022 by spectre6000

[IanC]

I always thought that Junta refers to a military takeover of power in a country so hardly a good name for a watch, the La part could be French inspired so who knows.  I have added a picture of the case rear and also a view of the Ingersoll Triumph face that came with the gold coloured case with virtually no innards.   There is an engraved 555 on the back of the bottom plate.

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, IanC said:

I always thought that Junta refers to a military takeover of power in a country so hardly a good name for a watch, the La part could be French inspired so who knows.

"La junta" is Spanish for "the union", "la" translates to "the" in Italian, French, and Spanish. The term also indicate the governing cabinet after a military coupe d'etat (that's French) in Latin American countries. But in reality simply means joint, meeting and is normally used in Spanish without connotations.

[Manxcat]

I recently came across an eBay auction for something I though was pretty funny.  It was advertised as needing a battery replacement and at first I thought the seller just copied and pasted the text, but after I won the auction for $4.99, he messaged me to make sure I was aware it needed a battery!  I have attached an image and the note from the auction and an image of the watch as I received it.  I know Winners are not great...and it did end up getting damaged in shipping (took a hit the bent the crown and knocked off the second hand), but still, a mechanical skeleton for 4.99...

As a side note question...does anyone know what movement might be in here?  I am looking for a new stem and it does not match anything I have on hand.

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, Manxcat said:

As a side note question...does anyone know what movement might be in here?  I am looking for a new stem and it does not match anything I have on hand.

Almost certainly a "Tongji" Chinese standard movement. I have a couple of "Winner" watches which have a skeletonized Tongji in them. The stem should be available.

Some of these mechanisms have a slight tendency for the keyless work to jump out of place, or the spring to snap but there are loads of donors on ebay if you need parts, and they are cheap as chips.

For example there are also lots of "Atlas Collections" mechanical pocket watches that use the same mechanism, which would have a long stem in them. You can sometimes pick those up as non runners for 0.99p

The Tonji is produced in huge numbers by a number of different Chinese movement manufacturers. As a result there a lot of variation in quality. Some of mine are well finished and run very well. Others, not so much. The parts are mainly interchangeable between different manufacturers, since they are meant to be produced to a standard design.
 

I've included a battery for the watch, simply print it,  cut it out and place the watch on top of if, and it should revive it immediately.   You will need to fit the stem and wind it and give it a service first of course.

Edited February 13, 2022 by AndyHull

[Manxcat]

It runs GREAT, but I tried to bend the bent crown back and it snapped.  I had another crown on hand with a 3mm extension and it fit perfect on the broken stem, but I have decided its too small...hard to wind...and of course I decided that after I lock-tight'ed it...so a new stem would be handy!  After some googling I suspected it might be the CSM, I was just surprised that none of my on hand stems from the china kit matched.

[AndyHull]

An Acora five jewelled quartz (probably a brand of Lucien Piccard) on its way to the 404 club.

The quartz mechanism is stamped "Swiss Parts" so in all likely hood it was assembled elsewhere.

I would guess this mechanism is probably from the mid 1980s.

The Lucian Piccard brand still exists, but they seem to be producing a small number of Japanese movement chronographs these days.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by AndyHull

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, AndyHull said:

An Acora five jewelled quartz (probably a brand of Lucien Piccard) on its way to the 404 club.

The quartz mechanism is stamped "Swiss Parts" so in all likely hood it was assembled elsewhere.

I would guess this mechanism is probably from the mid 1980s.

The Lucian Piccard brand still exists, but they seem to be producing a small number of Japanese movement chronographs these days.

 

Nice. Is it running?

[AndyHull]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Nice. Is it running?

The listing says "spares or repair" and it hasn't arrived yet, so I suspect that it will probably work following a service, but I'll keep you all posted when i get a chance to look at it. This may be in a couple of weeks.

[AndyHull]

A Timex Big Q "M Cell" and a Montine, in a tin of other assorted junk, coming from the biggest junk shop in the world (ebay).

There is a random bunch of ladies watches in there too. The whole mess went for four quid, so they all qualify for the club if I can get them running. That filigree brooch might be silver too.

 

 

[spectre6000]

I was doing some chemistry stuff for work the other day, and waiting for a reaction involving some reasonably strong HCl. I was perusing the internet just surfing a brainwave. Aqua regia is one of those ancient alchemical standards involving HCl (and nitric acid, I think, which is also easy to get without any special permits or anything), and it is used to dissolve and recover gold. I have a small handful of 404 failures that were in gold plated cases. They're pretty much trash unless I happen to find a good movement in a borked case that's worse than these are, but honestly I've moved on from that sort of watch personally. Still, if I were to fall down some rabbit hole or another, as is my wont, that involved acquiring huge quantities of gold plated watches en masse (maybe my daughter gets a bug to make watch part art or something), I wonder how many watches it would take to make chemical gold recovery worthwhile? Assume some average size between mens and womens with their respective representation in the market, then round up to the nearest convenient number. It would be pretty cool to just have a "Royal Water" jar on the shelf with something chilling out in it (plus probably another to dissolve whatever lesser metals first), then occasionally swap out whatever is being soaked. Eventually, finish the process and recover some meaningful amount of gold, and melt it into some goofy little thing. A coin or something. Just for giggles.

Edited February 13, 2022 by spectre6000

[Tony13]

I had that same idea a few years ago.

I had a lot of old computer parts and old watch bracelets plus some cases.

I did do the trick but it was never worth the afford and the chemicals and time did not justify the amount of gold I recovered. I had 2 gram of gold in the end.

[spectre6000]

OK, so it's viable, the question is how much would it take to make it worthwhile? I'm thinking years' worth of cast off cases and bracelets here. Not looking for any quick return, just another fun aspect of this weird bifurcated hobby. How many watches/bracelets worth went into getting that 2 grams?

[Plato]

1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

OK, so it's viable, the question is how much would it take to make it worthwhile? I'm thinking years' worth of cast off cases and bracelets here. Not looking for any quick return, just another fun aspect of this weird bifurcated hobby. How many watches/bracelets worth went into getting that 2 grams?

The spot price for gold is currently £44 per gram. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Plato
Missing content

[AndyHull]

I've never gone down this particular rabbit hole, but I did do a little bit if research on it a while back.

This youtube channel is pretty informative on the subject. Your recovery rate will depend on a number of factors. The thickness of the plating on the items being the most obvious. Some of these cases have barely a lick of gold on them, others are much more generous.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by AndyHull