When to wind down the mainspring and when to remove the balance

[pubudeux]

Hey all!

In my learning process I've watched lots of videos of watch movement disassembly and seen a few movement service manuals where this topic is not exactly clear or consistent.

I'd like to get your opinions on when is the right time to release power from the mainspring and when is the right time to remove the balance. I understand this will vary movement to movement, but I am looking for an understanding of why you might not yet want to remove the balance, so I will ask some more pointed questions if there is no answer to the "right" time:

1) Does removing the balance while there is still power in the mainspring increase chance of damaging balance or escapement? I'd imagine it would since it would be moving at high speed when removed.

2) If the above is true, then when disassembling a movement should I initially focus on getting to the barrel, releasing and winding down, and then removing the balance? I ask this question for movements where I don't have a step by step guide to follow.

 

Thanks in advance for the help and patience for a beginner! 

I'd also appreciate any intro watchmaking book you'd recommend, especially one with great detailed diagrams. 

[CaptCalvin]

Whichever series of events would have the least risk of damage/least akward is the one you want to go with. Ideally you'll want to relax the mainspring and get rid of the balance earliest you can. But in general such operation isnt possible as the first step for example on most automatic watches, where the automatic device prevents unwinding and hangs over the balance that necessitate awkward manipulations to remove balance. Realistically I wouldn't think there is much more risk in removing the balance without first winding down the watch. I do it occasionally to get better access to escapment for lubrication and other purposes like adjustment/observation/inspection. But if you want to be sure you take absolutely any precaution you can to minimize risk then by all means take off the power first. 

[pubudeux]

Thanks for the helpful answer.

What about non-handwinding automatic movements?

Even if I'm able to find the click, I'm worried about releasing it without being able to control the power release by holding the crown.

Is there a method for doing this on these type of automatics?

Similarly, when it comes time to reassemble and place the balance on the movement, what is the preferred wind the mainspring in a small, incremental way when there is no keyless mechanism?

Edited July 6, 2020 by pubudeux

[HectorLooi]

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule. I take off the balance with full power in the mainspring sometimes. Like when you put the watch on the timegrapher and something doesn't look right. My only rule is never take the pallet fork out when there is power. But.... Is there anyone out there that hasn't done that accidentally? 

On older pocket watches with cylinder escapements, there is no pallet fork. In these type of movements, taking off the balance before power down will result in the gear train running at full speed. Don't ask me how I know that.

On automatic watches that the winding stem does not engage the ratchet wheel, the way to power down the mainspring is to use a large screwdriver to engage the the barrel screw then release the click spring. Then slowly allow the screwdriver to release power from the mainspring.

I wish there was a proper tool to do this, like a special screwdriver with a friction controlled release button. Does anyone know of a tool like that?

[CaptCalvin]

3 hours ago, pubudeux said:

Similarly, when it comes time to reassemble and place the balance on the movement, what is the preferred wind the mainspring in a small, incremental way when there is no keyless mechanism?

Which is why many watchmakers prefer to install keyless works first thing. Last thing to come out first thing to go back in.

[oldhippy]

If the watch is in for just cleaning. I always let the spring down first, then remove the complete balance, put it to one side and cover it. Doing that you won't cause any accidental damage. You know you can remove all parts without things going wrong. If the movement has something wrong with the balance it is best to let the power right down and the give it a few turns so you can see what is happening with the escapement. That is what I was taught and it is just my preferred way I used to work.  

[clockboy]

Everyone to their own method. For me I release the mainspring per ASAP just as a precaution. 

[pubudeux]

6 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule. I take off the balance with full power in the mainspring sometimes. Like when you put the watch on the timegrapher and something doesn't look right. My only rule is never take the pallet fork out when there is power. But.... Is there anyone out there that hasn't done that accidentally? 

On older pocket watches with cylinder escapements, there is no pallet fork. In these type of movements, taking off the balance before power down will result in the gear train running at full speed. Don't ask me how I know that.

On automatic watches that the winding stem does not engage the ratchet wheel, the way to power down the mainspring is to use a large screwdriver to engage the the barrel screw then release the click spring. Then slowly allow the screwdriver to release power from the mainspring.

I wish there was a proper tool to do this, like a special screwdriver with a friction controlled release button. Does anyone know of a tool like that?

Ahh that makes sense! Thanks.

So when I am reassembling and want to add some power to test, I'm assuming I'd do the inverse and wind the barrel a bit using a screwdriver?

It is insightful hearing opinions from different watchmakers. Thanks for that, I know this is the kind of thing you only really learn from experience but I want to benefit from collective wisdom before breaking too much stuff

 

[watchweasol]

Hi  In addition to all the sterling advise you may find the attached document useful in future.

TZIllustratedGlossary (2).pdf

[pubudeux]

28 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  In addition to all the sterling advise you may find the attached document useful in future.

TZIllustratedGlossary (2).pdf 4.2 MB · 2 downloads

Wow, this looks great. Thank you

[watchweasol]

you are very welcome

[KarlvonKoln]

Note, I feel I am still a bit of a novice at this. That said, just my two cents: since most of the antique pocket watches I have worked on either had balance and/or other escapement issues, or since they were going to need a complete strip and clean anyway, I got very good at letting down a mainspring gently.  I seem to have made it a habit. I feel like everything is easier after that.  I wouldn't call it *always* necessary. But in most cases I find it mitigates the harm you could do.  It is the first thing I do, just because I can do it easily and have done it often.  Kinda like removing a car's negative battery cable, even if you may not end up working on anything electrical. It becomes a kind of habit. 

[spectre6000]

7 hours ago, clockboy said:

Everyone to their own method. For me I release the mainspring per ASAP just as a precaution. 

The obverse to this is that the balance is the most fragile part, and getting it out of the way and safely stored ASAP would be just as precautionary a maneuver. Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit! :-)

[pubudeux]

43 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Note, I feel I am still a bit of a novice at this. That said, just my two cents: since most of the antique pocket watches I have worked on either had balance and/or other escapement issues, or since they were going to need a complete strip and clean anyway, I got very good at letting down a mainspring gently.  I seem to have made it a habit. I feel like everything is easier after that.  I wouldn't call it *always* necessary. But in most cases I find it mitigates the harm you could do.  It is the first thing I do, just because I can do it easily and have done it often.  Kinda like removing a car's negative battery cable, even if you may not end up working on anything electrical. It becomes a kind of habit. 

I agree with you here - my first attempt at disassembling a movement was with a for-repair Elgin movement I bought on eBay. Of course I didn't let the power release and once I took out the pallet fork I had a nice parts explosion lost one of the wheels forever  Luckily I bought the movement with that in mind and many more can be bought on eBay for $10-$25.