Seiko 7009A Automatic Movement

[Deggsie 145]

Could anyone please tell me how to correctly service the mainspring/ barrel assembly on a seiko 7009a? I’ve managed to split the barrel with a very sharp knife and walked out the mainspring. What is the correct breaking grease for the barrel wall please. Should I also oil the spring?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Regards

Deggsie

 

 

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[watchweasol 1,327]

i believe this subject has been coverd before on the forum  have a look via the search at the top right.      They are enclosed and not meant to be opened but replaced, But having said that many members have opened ans serviced the spring an barrel sucessfully.. just check the search for the many opinions on the subject.           cheers

[Deggsie 145]

Hi watchweasol. I’m sure you are correct regarding seiko not intending for the barrel/ spring to be serviced. The fact that a man assembled it means a man can disassemble it, and once open it’s exactly the same in principle as the Swiss design the Japanese so eloquently replicated.

I know there are some good debates on here regarding to service or discard, but nothing to advise on the best grease to use on the barrel wall. That’s really the advise I’m seeking.

Regards
Deggsie


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[jdm 2,131]

4 hours ago, Deggsie said:

I know there are some good debates on here regarding to service or discard, but nothing to advise on the best grease to use on the barrel wall. That’s really the advise I’m seeking.

If you search "braking grease" you will find very many discussions on the subject. And they all apply to Seiko, or any other maker automatic barrel.

[watchweasol 1,327]

Hi Dreggsie   I know where you are coming from as that's my sentiment,  Mark our sponsor advocated Mob 8217 on the barrel walls,  consensus is three dabs  at  120 Deg apart round the barrel wall.  Oiling the spring there are those who do and those who don' t    I my self put three dabs of oil on the spring and leave it to work in during use.   An emotive subject lubrication.

[Deggsie 145]

Hi Dreggsie   I know where you are coming from as that's my sentiment,  Mark our sponsor advocated Mob 8217 on the barrel walls,  consensus is three dabs  at  120 Deg apart round the barrel wall.  Oiling the spring there are those who do and those who don' t    I my self put three dabs of oil on the spring and leave it to work in during use.   An emotive subject lubrication.

Thanks watchweasol. I’ll try and get some 8217 if it’s not silly money. I’ve got to place an order with cousins Uk
Kind regards
Deggsie


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[Deggsie 145]

If you search "braking grease" you will find very many discussions on the subject. And they all apply to Seiko, or any other maker automatic barrel.

Thanks for the pointer jdm [emoji106]


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[Deggsie 145]

Hi All apologies for not updating you for a while on this watch. As some of you may recall I inherited a seiko 7009A 3040 and felt inclined to give it a service and get it running with a view to wearing it as a day watch.

The movement runs well in the horizontal plane for 12 hours or more. However in the vertical plane it will stop anytime but never runs longer than 3 hours in the vertical plane. If I put the watch into the horizontal plane, give the balance a gentle swing it starts to run immediately.

I have cleaned the movement 3 times, paying special attention to the dia shocks, end jewels and pivots.

Any ideas please? This is driving me nuts. [emoji19]


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[jdm 2,131]

13 hours ago, Deggsie said:

Any ideas please? This is driving me nuts.

Please post timegrapher pictures 10 minutes after full wind,  dial up, dial down, and vertical.

[Deggsie 145]

Please post timegrapher pictures 10 minutes after full wind,  dial up, dial down, and vertical.

Hello JDM. Ok, will do. Please give me a little time tomorrow to get this for you. Thanks in advance for offering help. Kind regards Deggsie


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[Deggsie 145]

Hello JDM. Ok, will do. Please give me a little time tomorrow to get this for you. Thanks in advance for offering help. Kind regards Deggsie   Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Here you go JDM. Sorry about the professionalism (or lack of it), it’s my first ever production. I hope it’s of use to help determine the cause of the movement stopping when in the vertical plane. For information, the movement has not been fitted with the calendar ring or calendar works. I also left the auto winder and cannon pinion off. Therefore it’s just the basic works.

 

 

 https://youtu.be/1znAJQro4DI

 

I started the video saying “it was a series of short videos”, but managed to get it into one.

 

Regards

Deggsie

 

 

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[jdm 2,131]

With a good amplitude and pattern like that I think the most likely cause is a piece of debris getting in the way, or anything else stopping the train or escapement. Try monitoring in vertical until it stops? Another approach, inspect all parts pinion wheels and jewels under a microscope for a chance of catching some minute defect.

[Nucejoe 1,327]

Strange debris if acts up only in vertical positon. 

I mark gears you have access to with ink, to see if stopping repeats with gears in same angular coordinates. 

If you are certain it randomly stops solely in vertical positions, side shakes are reasonable to blame, of all suspecable arbours,  staff stands as the likeliest due to heavy weight. 

Not much clue to point to anything in particular other than excess staff end shake or side shakes in escapement.

Runs so steady,  seeing a misbehavour is shame.

Good luck.

[canthus 137]

I used Moebius 8217 for the barrel wall of a Seiko 6139B automatic movement some time ago.  It wound/ran ok and no problems to date.  I think I may have also put a very small dab of M9020 on the barrel bottom and lid, not sure.

Edited August 10, 2020 by canthus

[Deggsie 145]

Hello Nucejoe and Canthus. Thanks for your replies, and I apologise I’ve only just got round to reading them. Nuce’ that’s a blooming good idea, an engineer like what I is should have thought of that too [emoji19]. I’ll mark with a very fine art pen tonight. I rebuilt this one last time at the weekend and think I may have discovered a contributing factor. There is much play (side shake) between the arbor and barrel. It is as serious as a sausage in an alley! Now this seems wrong, but why would that only cause an issue in the vertical plane??[emoji3166]

Canthus, since I need to potentially replace the barrel assembly, I’ll open this up and run it through the ultrasonic cleaner using Elma wf. Without removing the spring, not sure if there is room for applying fresh grease? Have to see.

I’ll keep you all up to speed

Take care, keep safe. We’ll beat it soon


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[canthus 137]

Hi Deggsie,  I have also tried opening the barrel and u/s cleaning (in lighter fuel) with spring intact but only on small (ladies) movements as it is so easy to lose flatness of coil when refitting, which I do by hand as not have m/s winders. I put in a small pot with the open side down, arbor removed, and put u/s cleaner on max agitation for 3 mins, give the spring a waggle and repeat for further 3 mins. Replace fluid and  do again for 3 mins. This seems to get it all clean. I then just put a couple of small drops of HP1300 on the barrel bottom and on top coils, and lube the arbor as normal This for a normal manual winding barrel.  I think you may be able to squeeze a bit of braking grease onto the barrels walls for auto=wind type spring in the small gap by the sliding tail.   Although not by the book, this method seems to give plenty of power and good run-time when used on these small movements.