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Removing extremely stuck screws

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agregate Member

agregate

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Hello everyone,

I own an old Elgin pocket watch and am trying to remove the screws to the main barrel and the stem but they are extremely tight to the point that I'm finding it impossible to remove them - even with a lot of force and pressure.

I do not want to damage my watch as it is an antique but at the same time do not want to send it to a professional if I can get it undone myself.

I've tried different sized screwdrivers to no avail, and understanding that it is a no-no, I've even used a cotton swab to apply WD-40 directly to the screw. I do not know if the screw has rusted or not - the watch itself is immaculate so I see no reason for the screws alone to rust.

Does anybody have experience removing stuck screws from their watches or pocket watches? These things are absolutely tiny!

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Penetrating oil applied to the screw and let soak for a day even two, is the norm to loosen it. 

You should not resort to excess force as it may break thus creating a bigger headache.

A picture always helps.

Use of heat and other approaches may become neccessary.

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agregate Member

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9 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Penetrating oil applied to the screw and let soak for a day even two, is the norm to loosen it. 

You should not resort to excess force as it may break thus creating a bigger headache.

A picture always helps.

Use of heat and other approaches may become neccessary.

Thank you for the response. Can I use any old penetrating oil or is there a standard for watch repair?

I've also attached an image of the movement.

20200521_191959.jpg

The topmost three screws (excluding the screw attaching the movement to the case) are all stuck. They are a nice blued steel colour.

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agregate Member

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8 hours ago, clockboy said:

One of these screws will be a reverse thread or are all of the screws tight. If they are all tight then maybe someone has used loctite. 

I've tested all screws and they are all sufficiently loose enough to undo them except for the three stated. I've tried to reverse the three but am worried I will either tighten them more or break something. I'm reuploaded the image with the screws in particular circled in red and the good ones in green. I really hope that loctite is not the case...

20200521_191959_redp.jpg

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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The one on the small wheel ( crown wheel) is reverse threaded, opens in anticlock direction.

I would mix WD 40 and the oil you got to, apply generously and give at least 24hrs for the solution to penetrate. 

Is this your first victim?    If so, perhaps we should practice on some cheap movement first. 

 Regards 

 

 

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watchweasol Distinguished Member

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Hi try applying the tip of a soldering iron to the two stuck screw heads for a wee while to warm up the screws If they are just stuck the heat will expand the screw hopefully breaking its hold be it loctite or rust.   As mentioned the crown wheel screw will be a left hand thread  and will undo clockwise, use a little wd40 on the screw but be sure to clean everything. and re lubricate.

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jdm Distinguished Member

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14 minutes ago, rodabod said:

Also, an obvious point, but make sure you use a screwdriver with a blade as wide as the screw head. 

That is a good practice with screws that work normally, but being able to impart more torque to a stuck screw it is not good, because it will make the screw to snap under the head. If it doesn't leave with normal force the something else must be done.

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Colditz WRT Addict

Colditz

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I have had this problem and loctight was the cause. I did exactly what watch weasel has suggested. I put the cleaned tip of a hot soldering iron on the screw head for 30 seconds - using the correct width screwdriver removed the screw. To see if this is your issue I would start with the bridge screw as you know it will be a standard thread and undo counter clockwise. If someone has used stud loc you will need t o heat for 60 seconds. Look for green deposits. Screw loc is pink, thread loc is red.

Hope you are successful. Good luck.

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agregate Member

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Thank you all for the suggestions. I actually have another parts movement of the same grade in case my watch breaks down - I will practice on the screws there before doing it to the real deal.

Looks like I'll trying heating up the soldering iron tomorrow and if that doesn't work I'll go buy some oil.

Will keep you all updated.

Edit: Yep! The bridge screw was indeed reverse threaded and applying a little force it came right out. I won't be tightening it as much as the previous owner. Only two to go tomorrow!

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Heat is one of the last resort, I disagree with its use at this point. 

You may face the same problem with two little screws to endstones retainer disk.

I would take balance, fork plus dial and  hands out and let the rest soak in cocacola, you are guranteed success then.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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2 hours ago, vinn3 said:

regular wd 40 is not a penitating oil !   they do sell one now.  there are many penitrating oils avaiable.  use them.  vin

Didn't know that. Is WD 40 just a rust killer then? 

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nickelsilver Distinguished Member

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Didn't know that. Is WD 40 just a rust killer then? 
WD-40 was formulated as a water displacement (the WD). It's mostly solvent, with a tiny bit of oil. It "works" as a lubricant because it loosens up old dried oil or grease, but it's a short lived fix. The solvent can help free stuck screws and bolts and such, but there are better specific products. It has almost zero rust preventative qualities. It DOES have terrific marketing and a dedicated fan base despite its shortcomings.
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agregate Member

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Update: I've gotten two of the three screws out now - the stem screw is still not budging. I have tried to use the tip of a soldering iron to heat it for 60 seconds with zero success. Will buy some penetrating oil tomorrow and give it a go. I'm starting to think this screw isn't locked but rusted :mellow:

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agregate Member

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I've bought some oil, applied it and waited a day and still nothing is working. I guess the last chance is mixing it with WD-40. Anybody have any other crazy ideas? I may just have to go get it serviced at this point...

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

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4 hours ago, agregate said:

I've bought some oil, applied it and waited a day and still nothing is working. I guess the last chance is mixing it with WD-40. Anybody have any other crazy ideas? I may just have to go get it serviced at this point...

I don't think you can find any idea crazier than mine, that is remove balance complete and dial, drop the rest in cocacola, let soak for a two days.

Penetrating oils works too though Cocacola renders all screws easy to remove.

Even heat doesn't gurantees result, you may have to re-soak after heat.

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agregate Member

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8 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

I don't think you can find any idea crazier than mine, that is remove balance complete and dial, drop the rest in cocacola, let soak for a two days.

Penetrating oils works too though Cocacola renders all screws easy to remove.

Even heat doesn't gurantees result, you may have to re-soak after heat.

I honestly thought you were being sarcastic. I don't have the tools to clean that crap out once soaked - if heat treatment doesn't work, this is off to the clock shop.

Thanks everybody for the ideas. It's been a bit of a journey and I've learned a few things, successful or not.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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11 minutes ago, AshF said:

I also have 3 screws that I can't remove.  I know they're rusty though as I can see rust elsewhere on the movement.  Regarding cola, does that need to be full fat or will diet do?  

I think diet is prefered.   Don't forget the pop corn.:lol:

It really works, soak for two days and brush any part you can with powdered detergent.

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