Time Savings Clock

[luiazazrambo]

772762 IMPROVEMENTS IN COIN OPERATED CLOCK MECHANISM CONTROLLING DEVICES    GB - 17.04.1957

Int.Class G07F 17/00    Appl.No 3301654    Applicant TIME SAVINGS CLOCK COMPANY LTD    Inventor PITT WILLIAM ARTHUR

772,762. Coin-controlled savings clocks. TIME SAVINGS CLOCK CO., Ltd., and METAMEC Ltd. Nov. 4, 1955 [Nov. 15, 1954], No. 33016/54. Class 27. In a savings clock in which a control wheel 14 engaged by a pawl 15 is turned stepwise away from a position in which it stops the clock by the insertion of coins down a shoot 11 and is returned to stopping position by the clock mechanism, the coins act on a spring- loaded lever 13 and the control wheel acts on a stopping lever 18 through a pressed-out tongue 17. The lever 18 extends through the gap formed by a tongue 16 pressed out of a back plate 10 to receive the pawl 15 and carries a blade spring 19 engageable with a part of the clock mechanism, such as a pin on the balance. The control wheel is returned to the stopping position by mechanism comprising a co-axial shifting wheel 20 and ratchet wheel 21, each toothed over one half of their circumference, and a disc wheel 28 connected to the clock mechanism. One or more pins 29 can be inserted in holes 31 in the disc wheel, to vary the rate of return of the control wheel, and they rotate the shifting wheel 20 stepwise through half a revolution to tension a spring 23 until the plain part of wheel 21 comes opposite a pawl 26a, when the spring rapidly completes the revolution of the shifting wheel and a pin 22 extending between the shifting and ratchet wheels returns the control wheel through the space of one tooth. The pawl 26a is held clear of the plain part of wheel 21 by a pressed-out tongue 31. The control wheel has a wide tooth space 10b to prevent further rotation after a predetermined number of coins have been inserted and also a pressed-out tongue 17a engageable with a stop 10a to limit the return movement of the wheel.

This is where I found the info: GB772762

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by luiazazrambo
found a picture on another site

[luiazazrambo]

I made further progress with the Time Savings Clock - i will have no problems with finding time anymore!! 

How the coin mechanism works is described above, not like I had a clue when I read it. Basically the clock mainspring barrel operates/drives the coin mechanism. Or with other words the mainspring barrel manipulates the coin mechanism to stop the clock running by tapping/locking the balance wheel in a timely manner. When you drop a coin into the coin mechanism you unlock the balance wheel. You can use maximum 17 coins to allow the clock run, the 18th would go to the piggy bank, but it would not give you extra time with the clock. Now I have to put it back into the case, the task I don't like at all because that is just work and cleaning, no fun at all.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by luiazazrambo
correcting english

[watchweasol]

Hi  Nice one Luiz    a worker, Check the beat it looks a little out watching the escapewheel.  Will last another 50 years . 

[luiazazrambo]

22 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  Nice one Luiz    a worker, Check the beat it looks a little out watching the escapewheel.  Will last another 50 years . 

Thank you. How do I do that? How to check and how to correct? Setting is same as watches? Turning the hairspring on the balance arbor? And how do I check? I have that Chinese No 1000 timegrapher, but it is for watches.

Edited July 21, 2020 by luiazazrambo
typo

[watchweasol]

Hi just listen to the tick tock and move the hairspring collet untill an even beat is achieved,  I have an amplifier and pick up to do that 

[luiazazrambo]

I was thinking while i had some relaxing moments in the garden and i just realized that I still cant set the beat. So you amplify the sound of the tick tock and then you just listening to it and set the beat like that? I don't think I could do that, not with my experience, I am good in airguitar playing and in air drumming, but not with the tick tock. Or do you use SW aid to set it?

[oldhippy]

I've been following this thread and watching its progression. That hairspring needs slight adjusting, you have to much touching it needs to be even and keep its shape no matter where the regulator is. Poor action on the balance, which suggest the pivots are slightly blunt or the cups are not smooth or both. The movement is in beat as it starts off well. Have you oiled the cups and the escape wheel? if so what oil did you use. Congratulations on your achievement.    

[luiazazrambo]

Hairsprings are killing me and I have difficult times with them. I seem to hear some extra little noise when it operates so yes too much touching i think. Pivots seemed to be pointy/ok when I checked them, but again I have no experience as what is ok and what is not. I have not checked the cups, i did not even know that I have to check them. Is it possible to smooth them out? How? End shake seemed to be ok too. I used J.D Windle's clock oil for the clock movement and some J.D Windle's Turret clock oil here and there and molykote dx for the coin mechanism. I hope I don't have to take it apart once again, but will do if needed, this is all fun.

[oldhippy]

 J.D Windle's clock oil is all you need. The pivots should be pointed just like a pencil. The cups can be tided up if there is wear in side by a sinker or a rose cutter. 

[AndyHull]

Nice work. Considering the state of that hairspring at the start, very impressive.
Do you know much about how it is meant to run, how many bph for example?

Is it running accurately?

I played the recording to my software time grapher, but it couldn't make sense of it, but that is most likely because it is meant for watches, rather than clocks.

[luiazazrambo]

Hi Andy, thank you. I am not so impressed, I am satisfied though and calmed down to an acceptable level after the "hairspring bending".  Unfortunately I don't have any technical specification, I need to talk to PITT WILLIAM ARTHUR i think. The only thing I can safely say at the moment that the clock is kind of running, but I don't know if it is accurate, I have not put the hands on yet and I have to prepare myself and family for a one month long holiday / remote work session starting this weekend. I wont be able to play with my toys during this period. I'd like to set everything correct and right not because of the value of the clock itself, but the priceless knowledge you could possibly obtain by it. Probably getting away will be a good thing, but it wont go without disturbance in the force, a Hungarian made watch crystal cutting tool is waiting for me at my destination.  (The one you could see in this post: HORLA ) 

 

[luiazazrambo]

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I played the recording to my software time grapher, but it couldn't make sense of it, but that is most likely because it is meant for watches, rather than clocks.

Thank you for trying, much appreciated!

[luiazazrambo]

I copied two links at the beginning of this thread, but reading one of them again made me think and I believe it is worth copying its content directly here:

Not all piggy banks are shaped like a pig. This one’s shaped like a clock. In fact it is a clock and it’s called the “Time Savings Clock”.

You might ask, who would use such a clock to save their coins? Good question. Somehow, insurance companies figured out that their customers would, and they made sure each willing customer had one of these 1950’s coin-operated timepieces. It was a novel way to help them save money for their premium payments. The idea was that two British florins had to be put in the coin slot at the top of the case to keep the clock going. After all, who doesn’t want their clock to keep ticking? After the clock would run for a certain amount of time,  levers and wheels in the movement would lock in place, and the clock would stop. So, time for some more coins. After the coin-drop, the clock movement was then free to tick away.

The coins ended up at the bottom of the clock in a sealed chamber, and at regular intervals an insurance man would come to the customer’s home, unseal the chamber, collect the coins, then re-seal the chamber. (Photo on left shows a time saving movement and coins.)

Beyond this clock’s novelty is something more. It’s not just a piggy bank and time keeper rolled into one. When I step back for a moment and look at its coin slot and numbered face, I see the clock as a symbol, one that reminds me of the value of time itself.

Think of it this way: to get the clock to run, it has to be fed with money— and money, as we well know, is what we all use to buy something we value– such as a car, a home, an education, food, clothing, etc. By our putting money into the clock in order to keep it running, we are, so to say, buying time. Of course, time can’t really be bought, and the coins just get the clock gears to move. But in having to put something valuable, such as money, into the slot to keep the time going, the clock becomes a symbolic reminder that time itself is a thing of value.

In fact, time isn’t just an equal among other things of value. Time has a worth that’s in a class by itself because  there’s only a limited amount of it.  And unlike many things that can be bought with money, time isn’t one of them. That makes time very precious. And when I get to thinking just how precious it is, I also get to asking myself how well I’m using it. And that leads me to other questions, about loved ones, the future…in fact the very purpose of life.

So dropping two coins in the slot of a clock to pay for insurance premiums can turn out to be a whole lot more.

[luiazazrambo]

I had a few minutes to take out the balance wheel to take a picture of it. What do you think? Not too bad not too good? Shall I use my unimat as a pencil sharpener? I wanted to use my incomplete screwhead polisher ( screwhead polisher ) as suggested by @Tmuir , but I dont have the right sized collet.

 

[oldhippy]

Remove the hairspring and sharpen in the lathe using an Arkansas Stone with oil. 

[luiazazrambo]

While i was here and I spent so much time to set up my digital camera with the microscope i used the opportunity to take a picture about both cups, here we go:

[oldhippy]

Those cups need to be cleaned up with a countersink drill bit.

[luiazazrambo]

7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Those cups need to be cleaned up with a countersink drill bit.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have any of those. Where to buy them? What is the shape supposed to be? Cone? What angle? 

[oldhippy]

You can buy them at most clock suppliers they come in various sizes, you just pick the one that best fits the cups you have, you should be able to hold the drill in a pin vice, those cups are not made of hard metal.   

[luiazazrambo]

31 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You can buy them at most clock suppliers they come in various sizes, you just pick the one that best fits the cups you have, you should be able to hold the drill in a pin vice, those cups are not made of hard metal.   

Could you please give me an example, picture or link? I have already tried to check out websites for countersink drill bits but only found some very expensive sets and I am not even sure if they are for the task I have at hand.

[oldhippy]

This is the sort of type I had and yes they are expensive.  Bergeon tools are very pricey. I have seen them on ebay, look for watch/clock tools vintage. You can buy new from https://www.hswalsh.com/categories/roller-sinkers-and-countersinks or https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/countersinks-bergeon

A suggestion from me would be re point the balance pivots and try the balance and see what type of action you get, if its good then leave well alone, if it is still bad then you know what you will need to do. Those tools not only are for that sort of work but they come in handy for making oil sinks when it comes to re-bush and removing burr. 

[luiazazrambo]

Too late, patience is not my virtue, I may have made a mistake here. Found a bit what seemed to be suitable for the job in the box of my cordless rotary tool. So started rotating it, it was very difficult to see any result by rotating it by hand, almost nothing was visible so started to use the rotary tool itself. And now the silvery surface started to become yellowish. Is this thing brass with a hard surface coating? I guess I ruined it now. How is this thing called, and can it be bought as new?

[oldhippy]

Do you know the make of the movement and could you post a photo. We learn by our mistakes. Never use power tools on a clock movement. Only a lathe should be used and that would be for a specific task. 

[luiazazrambo]

This is a clock movement from metamec as far as I understand. Pictures and video posted earlier.

[Marc]

2 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

How is this thing called, and can it be bought as new?

If you let me have some dimensions I may be able to help