Jump to content

Novice attempting a repair on an Oris Cal 292 movement


Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Following on from my post in the new member section, I've had a brief examination on my effectively 'spares or repair' Cal 292 movement by Oris.

In summary: 
The watch appears stuck at 'fully wound' - the crown spins freely when winding it counter clockwise, but will not turn clockwise.
When pulling the crown, all hands rotate albeit with a very stiff motion. When tapping the watch, the second hand will increment a few seconds.
Also, I'm aware of the graveness of this mistake, but I accidentally unscrewed the 'set lever screw' too far when removing the crown and stem, and the watch is now stuck in the it's normal 'operational' mode (Argh!)

I've got a few questions to get started; 

  • How do I remove the movement from it's case? I've removed the 2 case screws but can't get it out. Pulling at it with tweezers does nothing.
  • I wanted to look at the mainspring and movement train, but can't see how to remove the bridge underneath the fourth wheel (?).

Please see photo below of various screws removed, but not much else.

Many thanks.

IMG_20200520_145120.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The movement is probably in need of a total service with cleaning and lubrication since the drive train is in a dead halt.
I see you got the stem out and been picking various screws away.. guess if you turn it around and take the crystal away with a crystal lift the movement will pop out through the front with a slight push on the back.
Just some theories i have since one can't see the front of the watch.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

first thing I would do is put the screws back in  because if the watch really is fully wound up when you take it out of the case and those plates falloff all the mainspring energy is going to unwind really fast it's probably got break something.

then  from the link below you find out that the ratchet wheel is under the dial side.  More than likely from your picture  the move but probably comes out the front side..

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Oris_292

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apologies, please see watch face pictured below:

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Remove the movement retainer ring, it dosen't just pop out you got to pry the ring out.

I've levered upwards in the void to the left of the balance wheel (about 9 oclock in the picture above) with some force, but felt no movement, assuming the is the right area?

IMG_20200515_145004.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Click mech and ratchet wheel are on the dial side, based on your description that " hands move with very stiff resistance" the fault is in gears of the rocker arm which constitute a train to the ratchet wheel when in wind position and another seperate train to make a minute train in set position. 

Bridge will slide out once the movement is out,  as explained screws to the bridge best be put back on. Please take pictures at each stage of disassembly to post if needed, so parts can be marked and returned to you, unless   @watchweasol   finds us an schematic diagram please. :lol:.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

looking at the parts list at least they have a nice picture of the front and more important the back.  So I snipped out the image for you if you want to release the power you definitely have to get to the dial side.

282.JPG

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your help so far guys, really, I am truly grateful for all your advice, comments and input.

I've since refitted all the plate screws. I await delivery of a crystal lift which should arrive next week. I will keep you all updated. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Your Oris is rare and collectable,  its dial is genuine and looks good and  if its feet are intact you got a  sought after dial. seconds hand is not genuine, is the crown signed?  

That's daunting - perhaps the watch is too good to be in the hands of someone like me...

The crown doesn't look signed, just very well worn.

IMG_20200521_223514.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Maxppp said:

Apologies, please see watch face pictured below:

I've levered upwards in the void to the left of the balance wheel (about 9 oclock in the picture above) with some force, but felt no movement, assuming the is the right area?

IMG_20200515_145004.jpg

Cool watch! Use caution on this one, and good luck. I will await the service and seeing a video of it running.

Regards

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Maxppp said:

That's daunting - perhaps the watch is too good to be in the hands of someone like me...

The crown doesn't look signed, just very well worn.

IMG_20200521_223514.jpg

All vintage Gents watches are collectable, specially the ones like yours with in-house movement, Oris made all the parts except stones. 

Not too pricy yet not a practice piece either.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

All vintage Gents watches are collectable, specially the ones like yours with in-house movement, Oris made all the parts except stones. 

Not too pricy yet not a practice piece either.

Correction ;       All vintage Oris gents watches are collectable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all again, minor update. I've managed to remove the crystal and hands without incident. 

However, with the 2 x case screws removed (pictured removed at 12 and 6 o'clock in the picture), and the crown stem removed, but after pushing rather hard, the movement still won't budge! Is it possible I'm missing something obvious? 

 

rear.jpg

front.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello (again!), another update;

I've removed the movement from the case and dial, re-attached the set lever, and unwound the watch.

I guess my next step is disassembly - I was going to attempt something along the lines of this:

http://archive.horlogerie-suisse.com/Theoriehorlogerie/disassembling-mechanical-watch.html

Does that sound like a sensible approach?

movement_back.jpg

movement_front.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Maxppp said:

I guess my next step is disassembly - I was going to attempt something along the lines of this:

http://archive.horlogerie-suisse.com/Theoriehorlogerie/disassembling-mechanical-watch.html

Is the watch now in a functional state? Because if it's now functional then you can take it apart for cleaning otherwise I'd recommend fixing whatever the problems are.

Then if you like the step-by-step instructions at the link above which Are not exactly going to apply to your watch. Here's a variation on that in a little different format

http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6947.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JohnR725 said:

Is the watch now in a functional state? Because if it's now functional then you can take it apart for cleaning otherwise I'd recommend fixing whatever the problems are.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look. 

Re functionality, the watch is behaving in exactly the same fashion as my very first post, although not surprising as I haven't really done anything to it other than removing the movement :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Is the watch now in a functional state? Because if it's now functional then you can take it apart for cleaning otherwise I'd recommend fixing whatever the problems are.

I might misunderstand you, but isn't the normal procedure to first service the watch and then (and during the service) do the fault finding in case the problems remain? It's an honest question, not an opinion.

Edited by VWatchie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Maxppp If you have never serviced a watch before I do recommend you practice on something else first, for example a Vostok 2409. It's a stunning timepiece you have there and there's a real risk you'll damage something or lose a part which might become very difficult to replace. There's always a risk, even when you're experienced but with experience you'll learn to minimize the risks.

Best of luck!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Update. Ran into a winding problem since some desperate previous repair guy had fitted the wrong winding gear. Cousins had one ! Turns out the movement is the slightly different 022 - 18 Looks like the one LH screw fixing for the crown wheel got updated to the two screw style.
    • Didn't you see the impact on your time machine? 🙂 Nobody told me this / or read it in any books but whenever I have a reading like yours one of the first things I check is the plate screws and in the majority of the cases the readings get better after tightening them, smoothing out your curves. If they are tighten enough it makes no sense to tighten them more as it brings no benefit but excessive force might cause the screwheads to brake off. You have the feel for it after a while. I have seen cases where the plate screws were not tight on purpose just to sort out some end shake issues but needless to say that's not the right way to go. Plate screws must be tight enough  just like the critical screws in automotive otherwise you screw up the whole movement in my opinion. I must stress that this is only my own opinion and i am just a hobbyist. 
    • I remember when I was in school the instructor would use whale oil on some problematic little tiny ladies watches because he felt it was a better oil. then for my birthday on my friends gave me a bottle of vintage nye watch oil. Complete with the advertisement inside which I have scanned below and what I find interesting is it hasn't gone bad in the model and it is super super thin I'm guessing the viscosity of water basically. then somewhere in the discussion group within the last year or so somebody purchased one of these bottles off of eBay and was using it on their watch. After all a bottle watch oil is? Apparently it was an expensive I'm guessing or it's what they had or something no idea what the final outcome was other than I found it amusing. then somewhere in the Internet somewhat it made up this interesting chart down below. I believe the first natural oil is there 8000 oil. Notice the friction properties in the first two columns in other words it's really good at reducing friction better than anything else.  But it does have additional specifications like contact angle which is almost never found in any spec sheet which has to do with how likely it is to spread. Big numbers are bad in those two columns and you can see spreading test it's very bad. So basically it's a really outstanding oil for a short period of time before it spreads away and of course being natural it has a habit of probably going bad very soon the best oil of course is Elgin oil at least the second version of their oil very good at reducing friction and very good at staying wherever you place it and still very fluid oil viscosity wise. then one of the most famous oils of all Swiss 9010 that I personally don't like and don't use quite a ways down on the chart personally prefer 9020 which unfortunately is not listed on this chart. It slightly heavier viscosity and has a little nicer contact angle those more likely to stay wherever you put it versus 9010 which universally requires epilam if you would like to stay wherever you putting it. then if you're in the viscosities here's an interesting chart that I found on the discussion group. ou will note there some minor variations between the viscosities listed here and the chart up above which may be attributed to the difference in temperature  universally everything is supposed to be at 20° C and the chart up above is at 40° C. Because what becomes interesting on the chart is 8000 is listed out of viscosity of 95 which does agree with their technical information and the PDF for the oil lists at 40° it is 41 where up above the chart everything is either listed as 50 or light whatever that means? Then Elgin oil is listed on the chart in a clever interesting way. you look on the chart at a viscosity of 125 you'll find Dr. Tillwich LGN oil which is the synthetic version of Elgin oil. Many years ago they had a request and gathered up a whole bunch of samples and synthesize the oil and for a while it was available for sale although it was rather expensive I had seen a bottle for about $100. and as far as viscosities go it does appear to be right in both charts in other words at 20° it's 125 and at 40° it's 50. So unfortunately it brings up the problem of viscosity or better yet contact angle determines the spread ability of your lubrication unfortunately we typically don't get contact angle we just get viscosity. So the casual trend is a heavier oil tends to not spread although as we can see from looking at the chart that isn't hundred percent true. As far as reducing friction goes viscosity doesn't necessarily come into play here either. Or basically we don't have enough of the right tech sheets to make a real proper comparison.
    • Somewhere in the back of my mind i thought you had the jewelled seitz pivot gauge, i was just asking if you had this scaled pin gauge as well. I might have just made up that thought  H. 😅
    • Yes, but the idea was that the OP wanted to be able to measure the diameter of the jewel holes in his collection of unordered jewels. Also, depending on the type of micrometre used one has to be careful not to dent the very small pivots (< 0.12mm) when pinching them in the micrometre. In my experience, the JKA Feintaster is safe to use also when measuring very small pivots. I don't understand your question, which I think was for me, no?
×
×
  • Create New...