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GraeP

Advice needed to get old Timex Diver running again.

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Good afternoon everyone :)

I'm hoping that someone will be able to help me get an old Timex Diver watch up and running again.

So, as I said when I introduced myself, I recently found my very first watch, an orange faced Timex Diver which I got for Christmas in 1973. My 7 year old daughter has asked me if I can get it repaired so that she can use it. Now I will be the first to admit that I don't know anything about watch repairs but I am a 'have a go' type of fellow and manage to fix most things myself, usually with a little advice from knowledgable people.

The story so far is that you can see from the first photo that the winding stem / crown assembly is missing and on removing the back case, that the retaining lever and screw are also missing. According to my Dad, I overwound the watch as a boy and the watch repairer said that it was not financially worth fixing. That would have been around 1977. The Diver watch identification number on the dial is: 23772 2573. From my research, the first number is the watch case identification number and the second number is the watch movement number and the year of watch manufacture. In which case, it has an M25 movement and the watch is from 1973 but I am unable to find a part number for the stem and crown assembly other than it starts: 401/1 TXJ1 ........?

I also have an old 21 Jewel Timex watch which keeps very good time and has an identification number on the dial of: 6544 7569. I am led to believe that dimensionally, the M25 movement and the M75 movement are the same. The difference being that the M75 movement uses rubies for bearings rather than hardened alloy. If that is the case, I'm hoping that if I swap the dials and hands over, I could use the M75 movement in my old Diver watch. Obviously, I would still need to find a winding stem / crown assembly to fit the case as the one on the 21 Jewel watch looks too long. See photos attached.

My first question is: Are the two movements interchangeable? My second question is: If the movements are interchangeable, does anyone know what the part number is for the winding stem / crown assembly to suit my watch case (23772)? And if so, does anyone know where I might be able to buy one?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks in advance,

Grae

Boys Timex Divers Watch.JPG

M25 and M75 movements.JPG

Opened cases.JPG

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22 answers to this question

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Thank you Watchweasol. 

I have been looking on fleabay but only one watch like mine has come up and unfortunately I didn't bid enough to get it. There seem to be several Timex Diver watches out there that are similar to mine but they have slightly larger cases which would make the winding stem and crown assy too long. I don't want to buy a donor watch unless I am confident it has the correct winding stem. Do you know if there is a list of Timex watches that share the same case as mine as that would greatly increase my chances of finding a stem assy, which is all I believe I would need if I were to swap the movements over and put the M75 into my Diver case.

Thank you very much for the Service documents you sent. They look very useful!

Cheers, Grae

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Hi  I heve had a look at all my sources for replacement and interchangable movements there seems to be very little on the timex  which seens to be a like for like change. you coule try  Welwynwatchparts.co.uk,  obsoletewatchandclockparts.com speetimerkollection(eupope). they are all suppliers of second user watches and parts.

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ah, I just reply to your intro post. i see you have opened the Sprite only to find the set lever and screw are missing.  Easy enough to replace as is the stem crown.  As for the question about interchanging of the m25 and m75 . Yes, they will exchange with all but one very important step.  Which is the minute hand from the m25 is not going to fit to the m75.    and I did also notice you are missing the movement retainer.  I have all the parts but of course we are separated by an ocean. Which makes stopping by a bit of a challenge.

I'd bet the movement just needs a basic "Timex" service.

Edited by JerseyMo

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I'm back! Sorry about that, I have been without internet for over a week and have only just got it all sorted out. Being off grid I rely on 4G for my internet. I thought there had been a problem with the local mast but it turned out to be a problem with my router. Never mind, all sorted now.

watchweasol - Thank you for those tips, I will send them a message and see what they have.

JerseyMo -  Hello to you and thank you very much for all your input. I hadn't even considered about the interchangeability of the hands, I just assumed that they would fit both mechanisms. I was under the impression that the M75 movement was the same as the M25 movement but a nicer movement with jewels. Just that information has saved me a whole lot of work and disappointment. To be honest with you, I wasn't looking forward to attempting to swap the faces over. It was just that I have the 21 jewel movement and it seemed like an easy way to fix the watch for my daughter.

 

If it was possible for me to either buy the parts I need or find a suitable doner watch, I think that would be the way forward. My problem with sourcing a doner watch is that there seem to be a number of similar looking timex watches with slightly different size watch cases which logic tells me will have slightly different length winder stems? I have attached a couple of pictures with dimensions on for reference. I have also noticed that the black plastic bezel is also cracked. Does anyone know if these are available?

Any help with sorting out this watch would be most appreciated as I'm beginning to feel that maybe this is a much bigger job than I had originally thought!

Many thanks to you very knowledgeable people out there!

Grae

Case width excluding stem boss.JPG

Case width inc stem boss.JPG

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So the dial code is: 23772 2573.  I got the watch for Christmas 1973

There was a watch on fleabay, see picture, that looked very similar to mine but with a blue dial instead of orange. I didn't bid on it because the seller didn't reply to my question and I don't want to buy something that isn't suitable. I have not seen any others apart from an orange one the same as mine but complete with winder, see second picture, but my bid was not high enough to win.

Other Timex Diver's that I have seen for sale seem to have slightly larger cases with 18mm lug spaces compared to mine which is 16mm.

None of this seems to be as straight forward as I first thought!

Old Kelton Timex Diver.jpg

Timex diver for sale.jpg

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your model is a Sprite and it has a 5/8" lug gap. the kelton (France) you show would have worked just fine as it is basically the same. Kelton was a brand Timex purchased and continued to sell under as they did with Saga and others.  

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19 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

your model is a Sprite and it has a 5/8" lug gap.

For years I have wondered how Imperial system diehards deal with the fact that lug gaps,as well case sizes, are iuniversally indicated in meaningless Metric units. Now I know - they don't ;-)

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

For years I have wondered how Imperial system diehards deal with the fact that lug gaps,as well case sizes, are iuniversally indicated in meaningless Metric units. Now I know - they don't ;-)

Perhaps I'm the exception, but I'm in my 70's and think 'bi-numerically' , I just 'know' that there is 25.4 mm in one inch, a meter is 39 3/8 inches, a millimetre is just under 40 thousands of an inch and conversely 0.1mm is to all intents and purposes 4 thou...Oh and of course a mile is 1.6 kilometres...mental conversion between the two systems doesn't even need thinking about...:)

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Quote

 

Sorry for the metric measurements. With the watch dating from the early 70's I should have put imperial measurements. I'm used to working in metric and just didn't think.

JohnD - Like you, I think bi-numerically but I should have used imperial units in this case.

JerseyMo - Thank you soo much for your input. You have saved me a lot of work and disappointment regarding swapping the M25 movement with a M75 movement. You have also helped me to find a cheap doner watch to (hopefully) repair my old diver. The doner watch I have bought has the same case width inc stem boss as mine, it has the winding stem / crown assy, an unbroken set lever and screw and the retainer. It is a complete watch that has issues. The dial code code is 23771 2575 and the dial code on mine is 23772 2572 so I'm hoping this is going to do the job! I'll let you know how it goes.

 

One last question to all of you very knowledgeable people out there...  Does anyone have or know anywhere that may have a black plastic bezel for sale to suit my old diver watch as I mine is cracked? Any help would be most appreciated!

 

Many thanks to everyone who has spared the time to help me in my quest to get my old watch working again for my little girl. You are a great bunch of people and I really appreciate the friendliness and advice that you have given me!

Grae

 

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Hello everyone.

I thought I'd give you an update on this project.

So, this morning I received in the post, a partially dismantled Timex Diver with a dial number 23771 02575 which I bought for spares in an attempt to get this old watch of mine working again as it had all the parts I needed.

The first thing I did was measure the watch case to compare it to mine. The body width inc stem boss measures 32.41mm compared to mine which measures 32.26 and the width of the body excluding the stem boss measures 30.62mm compared to mine which measures 30.53. I then removed the set lever and screw and using the winder stem that came with the watch, fitted them to mine. I checked the watch to see if it would wind up and it did! The second hand started ticking round. I then fitted the plastic retainer and the case back. After fitting the back, the watch stopped ticking so I removed it again. The watch had stopped. I gave it a gentle shake and it started ticking again but stopped after about 20 seconds. I had wound the watch but not to the stop, just in case.... It seems like the watch is trying to go but is maybe a little sticky?

From here, I'm guessing that maybe it just needs a good clean and service? - it had after all been sat in a drawer for about 46 years! My Dad said that he thought I had overwound it when I was a boy and had broken the spring and that the watch repairer had said it was beyond economic repair. Surely that is not the case if the watch ticks for around 20 seconds before stopping? 

What do you think guys? To me, ok, I'm a complete novice, but the watch wouldn't tick at all if the spring was broken..... would it?

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated!

One last question is, does anyone know where I might be able to buy a replacement black bezel for my watch as mine is broken and it also has a little crack. The doner watch I bought had lost its bezel and another watch I'd seen on fleabay also had a broken bezel. I notice that lots of these watches have lost their bezel so I'm not optimistic in finding one, but I thought it worth an ask!

Many thanks.

Grae

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:20 PM, JerseyMo said:

here you go...   

WIN_20200528_18_19_17_Pro.jpg

Hi JerseyMo. I got the watch running by warming it up and blowing air through the mechanism and it only lost just over 2 mins in 24 hours. I do have a problem with the winder stem from the doner in that the stem is very slightly bent near the crown. I could wind the mechanism fine out of the case but not assembled. I tried straightening the stem assembly and the crown came off :-( I tried glueing the crown back on with loctite but it didn't work when the watch was reassembled due to the stem being bent. I found a Timex crown and stem document but it doesn't list my dial (23772 2573). From that document though, I guess that I need either envelope 039 or 060. Do you know which one is correct for my watch and if so, do you know where I could acquire one? I can't find anything online.

Thank you in advance,

Grae1236211678_Bentbrokenwindingstemassy.thumb.JPG.2b4c03ab132396ab1a2c6b106ec002c5.JPG

Doner dial.JPG

Crown & Stem 401-1 TX1J Water-Resistant 1977.pdf

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On 6/14/2020 at 6:28 AM, GraeP said:

Hi JerseyMo. I got the watch running by warming it up and blowing air through the mechanism and it only lost just over 2 mins in 24 hours. I do have a problem with the winder stem from the doner in that the stem is very slightly bent near the crown. I could wind the mechanism fine out of the case but not assembled. I tried straightening the stem assembly and the crown came off :-( I tried glueing the crown back on with loctite but it didn't work when the watch was reassembled due to the stem being bent. I found a Timex crown and stem document but it doesn't list my dial (23772 2573). From that document though, I guess that I need either envelope 039 or 060. Do you know which one is correct for my watch and if so, do you know where I could acquire one? I can't find anything online.

Thank you in advance,

Grae1236211678_Bentbrokenwindingstemassy.thumb.JPG.2b4c03ab132396ab1a2c6b106ec002c5.JPG

Doner dial.JPG

Crown & Stem 401-1 TX1J Water-Resistant 1977.pdf 548.41 kB · 2 downloads

your watch is a UK model and you won't find it referenced in the attached pdf.  But, the case was used on many models and the stem in #39 should fit.

 

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JerseyMo - Thank you for that information. Next question is, do you have one by any chance and if so, would you be prepared to part with it? Or do you know of anyone who may have one for sale? I haven't managed to find anyone selling either a #039 or #060.

Your help is much appreciated!

Grae

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So here is my old Timex Diver up and running again. Thank you to everyone that has contributed to this post, especially JerseyMo who has been a real diamond and come up with the parts that I needed! Thank you gentlemen, it is much appreciated!

I wound the watch up and it is running, although slower than it was after I warmed the mechanism up and blew it out with air. Also, the date wheel seems to have got stuck so I think it is probably due to the lubrication being a bit dry and dirty. As the watch has never been serviced, I thought I would try and find a vintage Timex specialist here in the UK to give it a professional clean and service. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Many thanks,

Grae

Timex Diver 1973.JPG

Timex new bezel and winding stem:crown.JPG

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