Omega Overhaul Ok, But Now Setting And Winding Is Hard?

[noirrac1j]

Hello Fellas,

I 've been pretty busy these days, but today I managed to finish an Omega Seamaster Deville I've had for awhile. It is a cal. 563 with 17 jewels.  It is in very good condition inside and out and the dissassembly went well..

 

OK that's was not anything unusual. When I reassembeled the movement however, the cannon and the center wheel had to be held in place while I gently pushed the cannon pinon back in with brass tweezers. I felt that the pressure was not enough and the cannon pinion/center wheel coupling seemed "wiggly" to me. I looked closely under magnification but everything seemed fine--the cannon pinion was sitting properly. Here are the pictures just after I replaced the cannon pinion/center wheel, followed by the hour wheel and the calendar works:

 

 

 

everything else went on very well. As I said, this movement is in pristine condition--it was just dry and needed maintenance.

 

OK, when I went about setting the watch I immediately noticed a considerable resistance when setting the time. The manual winding mechanism is OK but also seems a little stiff to me. The watch is running well and keeping time so far...

 

 

 

I am receiving a timegrapher soon, and this will be one of the first to go on. I just want to know if I did something wrong when I replaced the cannon pinion. Maybe this is happening because I didn't oil it? Or perhaps it should have been pushed down harder onto the center wheel? I thought I pushed hard enough and didn't want to put too much force.

 

Any input will be much appreciated.

 

Regards,

JC

 

 

Edited January 29, 2015 by noirrac1j

[anilv]

It is accepted practise to oil the center wheel post, typically moebius 9504 as this is sold as high friction but practically any grease such as 8200 should work.

 

Looking at your pics, you have installed the intermediate setting wheel but the cannon-pinion, centre-wheel is not in place.

 

It is better to install the centre-wheel and cannon pinion first. If the setting wheel is installed, you will have problems when installing the cannon pinion as its unlikely the teeth will 'mesh'. You have a high chance of a) not seating the cannon pinion correctly or b)breaking a teeth off the cannon pinion when you force it against the setting wheel.

 

Get the escapement running first ..  then comes the rest of the other stuff.

 

HTH

Anil

[Geo]

Good morning from Scotland Joe.

What a beautiful watch you have there. You've done a really nice job with the service, but I'm a bit worried about the problem you encountered with the cannon pinion. Going by your description it sounds like you have pulled it right out of the centre wheel which shouldn't happen. I think the cannon is seized onto the shaft that should be staked to the centre wheel, and that is why it has pulled out of the wheel with the puller. If that was the case, you would have to have had to use a staking set to drive off the cannon from the shaft, then also use the staking set to stake the centre wheel back on the shaft.

I hope I am wrong about the above, but I think it is the reason the watch is so hard to set. If the cannon is still seized, you are possibly trying to turn the shaft in the centre wheel.

Please tell me I've got this wrong Joe, or it's a complete strip down again. :(

Edited January 29, 2015 by Geo

[anilv]

wow..!

[clockboy]

I presume it is the centre wheel that came adrift. With clocks if the wheels are not aligned correctly or they have the slightest twist they tend to bind.

What ever it is it is time to strip the centre wheel etc and double check absolutely everything. If the cannon is binding you should see some sort of scoring etc.

[WillFly]

That's a lovely watch and well worth the time spent on it - hope you\re successful in sorting the winding out.

[clockboy]

Might be helpful if it is the centre wheel or cannon fault two eBay sales. Item numbers as follows;

 

No.   111137314816

No.   291354762786

[noirrac1j]

Thank you Anilv, Geo Clockboy and Will fly for responding. This is why I should have waited until I got response before reassembling! You guys are very good, and you help me become better. Anil, I do think you've identified the problem and now I recall the ordered-step that has lead to this problem. When I took the cannon pinion off with the puller,the intermediate wheel had already been removed, so I think it came off the way it should: The cannon pinion is on the bottom plate side and when I pulled it off the center wheel on the other side was free to come off.

When I reassembled however--and this is where Anil's observation immediately struck a chord--I had already reinstalled the intermediate wheel and, it did give resistance to the proper seating of the cannon pinion. I applied enough pressure so that it became semi-seated, but I should have know that the cannon pinion/center wheel "wiggle" would come back to haunt me if I left it as-is.

I can't leave the watch this way, even if its running OK (which it is). I am going to have to take the watch apart and do a reassembly--this time paying very close attention to that cannon pinion/center wheel coupling. I have learned with this experience not to be too hasty to finish.

 

Thank you for the input. I'll give an update soon.

JC

[Geo]

Excellent Joe, going by your description I thought that you had dislodged the wheel from the spindle. It should be an an easy fix Joe, and I look forward to your next report.

Good call Anil! :)

[anilv]

been there..done that!

[Lawson]

This is an excellent thread!

And one that all newbees to watch repair, like me, should read until they understand what went wrong here.

I applaud you for sharing this with us JC, and never feel silly or ashamed for exposing your mistakes, as we can all learn very important lessons from them, and thus you become our teacher.

 

The way I have been instructed to assemble is in the following order:

 

Gear Train and Mainspring

Canon Pinion

Keyless Work

Motion Work

 

Is this how everyone else is doing it?

[Geo]

Gear Train and Mainspring

Canon Pinion

Keyless Work

Motion Work

 

Is this how everyone else is doing it?

It works for me. :)

[noirrac1j]

Thank you everbody for the suggestions. Anil you did a great job diagnosing the problem-- Been there done that? Oh yes, experience is the best teacher! I took the watch apart and this time I secured the cannon pinion/center wheel before putting the intermediate wheel in and it worked. The winding is smoother and I can set the time without needing latex for uhm.....protection.  I am always afraid that redoing a watch will result in something going terribly wrong that will overshadow the original problem, but things went smoothly. I hope this experience helps someone else from doing the same thing!

 

 

Hopefully doing it right the 2nd time

 

Looks better than before

 

 

And now on the wrist

 

 

 

Regards,

JC

[bobm12]

Hi Joe,

 

Great job and I learned too!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Geo]

Great result Joe! :)

[Andyclient]

Great job Joe , looks fantastic as well