Brand new Rhonda quartz movement not working

[ranchracer]

Hi all. A friend of my wife's asked if I could take a look at her Victorinox quartz watch for her. A local repair shop that she took it to for a battery change informed her that the movement was no longer functioning and that the watch would require a new one, with the repair bill being more than what she paid for the watch several years ago, over $200 USD. The watch is sentimental to her so I told her I'd take a look at it, and after verifying that a new battery did not fix the issue I ordered a replacement Rhonda HQ785 three-hand movement from Esslinger.com for $14.95.

I got the dial moved over to the new movement, being sure to move the small center spring washer over as well that goes around the center pinion and is sandwiched between the dial and movement.. Got all three hands mounted, put in a brand new battery, and...nothing. Here's the thing. If I place the second hand at say the 9:00 o'clock position and pull the crown out to the time setting position the hand does not move. In other words it appears to be hacking correctly. However, if I lift the movement up and hold it 90 degrees to the ground and push the crown back in the seconds hand simply drops down to the 6:00 o'clock position, like the center pinion is just free spinning.

The hour and minute hands move smoothly and easily when I turn the crown in the setting position, and the date flips correctly. I tried pushing the crown into the run position and setting the movement down for a few minutes to see if it was just an issue with getting the seconds hand mounted correctly but the hour and minute hands didn't move at all, so clearly the new movement is not running. The small orange isolator pad is in place underneath the battery so I should not be getting a short of any kind. 

What am I missing here?

Thanks!

[AlexeiJ1]

Hard to say. Pretty unlikely that a gear has broken or dislodged.

The possibility is that the cannon pinion is too tall and the original seconds hand that you are fitting does not fit all the way down the tube and onto the pinion.
I would recommend supporting the movement underneath when you fit the seconds hand.

I would also try and turn the seconds hand with light touch, a toothpick/popstick/tweezers. See if it rotates and has notches (that will be the gears moving). Also watch for the minute hand. If that moves when you rotate the seconds hand, then you know the gear train is intact.

If it is just spinning loosely, there may be a broken tooth/gear/ OR a poorly seated wheel somewhere.

If there is any hole or aperture in the back of the movement where the battery is, try to gently fit a pin or oiler and try move a gear. Watch it for rotation on the dial side.

 

Worst case is you open the movement and check everything is intact.

The good thing about plastic gear quartz movements is that even a beginner can fit things back together.

Before I trained myself as a watch fixer, I cleaned and re-assembled a Y120 Japanese quartz movement and got it going ($3 movement).

The upper plastic plate usually aligns the gears pretty well without much fiddling around.

Keep us posted. Maybe post some photos as well

[jdm]

Just return it with the cheapest mean and ask for a replacement or refund. 

[JohnR725]

Technical information just in case you don't have it

Datasheet_785_Complete_technical_documentation.pdf

[transporter]

I quite like the option given of the canon pinion, i have had replacement quartz movements in the past and have had to use the old canon pinion on the new movement 

[HectorLooi]

Before taking anything apart and even sending back the movement to Esslinger, did you test the movement with a pulse tester?

This movement comes with several versions with different cannon pinion heights. Is the new movement identical to the old one?

Ok, this may be a stupid question. New movements usually come with a shipping clip to prevent the hour wheel from dropping off. Did you remove it before installing the hands?

[jdm]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

Before taking anything apart and even sending back the movement to Esslinger, did you test the movement with a pulse tester?

No point since OP reported the below failure that alone warrants an immediate return.

Quote

f I place the second hand at say the 9:00 o'clock position and pull the crown out to the time setting position the hand does not move. In other words it appears to be hacking correctly. However, if I lift the movement up and hold it 90 degrees to the ground and push the crown back in the seconds hand simply drops down to the 6:00 o'clock position,

 

[watchweasol]

Hi If the movement is new and not working do as jdm suggested and return it to Esslingers with a note explaining why it is being returned. It is always as a matter of course to check these movements before fitting. saves a few headaches.        cheers

[jdm]

3 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

 It is always as a matter of course to check these movements before fitting. saves a few headaches. 

Indeed. The latest ETA 255 which I've replaced didn't wanted to run, fortunately I found that with insisting push and pulls it would start, after  a good while running the problem went away. It is much worse to leave a quartz module stopped than a mechanical caliber,, even if you buy new you can't know for how long it has been sitting in stock.

[ranchracer]

Wow! Thanks so much for all of the great responses! 

I think I'm experiencing two separate issues here. First I think that the replacement movement has a different size pinion. I'll be pulling it all apart in the next couple of days and doing my best to take some measurements. Really can't think of anything else that's causing the issue with the seconds hand.

Second, the movement is definitely not working. I'd been thinking about adding a pulse tester and a turbo tester to my arsenal of watch tools since I have so many friends and family who are always asking me to work on their quartz pieces. Both are on their way from Esslinger, so before I send this movement back I'll check it for a pulse and then see if I can kick start it with the turbo tester. If I can, I'll then dig into it a bit deeper and maybe swap the cannon pinion for the original. If I really screw it up, well, I'm out 15 bucks and not hundreds of dollars so I'm too terribly stressed about it.

I'll keep you all updated on my progress! Thanks again. Pic attached of the actual piece. 

[watchweasol]

Hi If you are getting deep into quartz watches check out the tester by Israel Angeles at  le arsi  on the net His tester is brill I have a pair of them.  mail  [email protected]. But check him out on the net and make you own mind up      all the best     cheers

[rodabod]

I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s easy to cause faults in some quartz movements just by applying too much pressure when fitting the hands. It’s certainly happened to me before.

If the seconds hand slips then the wheel must have disengaged with the train. This can potentially happen if you press the seconds hand too hard. 
 

Is the old movement running at all?

[JohnR725]

25 minutes ago, rodabod said:

I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s easy to cause faults in some quartz movements just by applying too much pressure when fitting the hands. It’s certainly happened to me before.

The problem is we can't have all the different movement holders to support the hands so most of the time we get by without having a problem.  If you look at the tech sheet that I attached up above it specifically says you're supposed to  use a specific movement holder with support so is not the damage anything. It would be nice to have a picture of the backside of the movement to see if we can see if the jewel has been knocked out of alignment.

[rodabod]

In the absence of a movement holder with support, rest the movement directly on a gel pad or bench surface. 

[ranchracer]

I originally installed the hands with the movement in an adjustable holder but for the seconds hand I ended up placing it directly on my rubber work mat. I wonder if I pressed a bit too hard and the wheel disengaged? Guess I'll find out when I pull it all apart! :-)

[rodabod]

Before you pull it apart, observe to see if the rotor is rotating when the stem is in the inner position. It can be hard to see as it moves so fast. I use a set of #5 stainless tweezers when inspecting/fitting most quartz wheels. 

[ranchracer]

15 minutes ago, rodabod said:

Before you pull it apart, observe to see if the rotor is rotating when the stem is in the inner position. It can be hard to see as it moves so fast. I use a set of #5 stainless tweezers when inspecting/fitting most quartz wheels. 

Looking through the side of the movement under the main plate I don't see any of the gear train wheels turning.

[rodabod]

The only one you might notice moving is the rotor which is closest to the coil. If you gently advance the train in either direction then you should see it move as an example. 

[watchweasol]

Hi do you have a lie release tool  you can check the gear train movement with one. It is possible a hair or piece of dirt has jammed the train the release tool spins the gear train and un jams the train    then refit battery and test, without the tools/test equiptment its difficult to diagnose .

[jdm]

7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi do you have a lie release tool  you can check the gear train movement with one. It is possible a hair or piece of dirt has jammed the train the release tool spins the gear train and un jams the train  

Unfortunately from what we read above looks like it was damaged when fitting seconds hand. 

[ranchracer]

Yep so it's definitely a gear train issue. Got my new tools and the watch most definitely has a pulse according to the pulse and coil tester, but I'm unable to jump start it with the turbo tester. I'll be digging into it this week to see what's up.