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Smiths Enfield Mantel Clock escapement problem


Moose

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23 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Moose  what was the chuck off a drill of some sorts.

Hi. It was off a Bosch drill. The drill had a twist-lock chuck on it as standard, but came with the normal chuck as an accessory in the box. I never did use it but kept it in the spares box. Must have had it for over 10 years before I finally got around to finding a use for it. :lol:

Never throw anything away.. :ph34r:

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Woah you are fast and talented! Wonderful. Could you please post a picture about all 4 sides or from the other three corners too (not sure if it makes sense)? If nothing else we could thank this silliness around us the time we can spend with out family and hobby. Congrats! :Bravo:

Edited by luiazazrambo
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Thanks for the comments luiazazrambo, much appreciated. But it’s just a “mash up” from bits of stuff I had about the place, with very few bought in bits, nuts and bolts mainly.

I’m still rummaging around for something to fabricate a hook to retain the spring, so when I’m down there I’ll take a few more shots for you.

Raining here at the moment (North Norfolk), so got a few jobs around the house lined up as well. And we recently were told we have at least another three weeks of “lockdown”, so plenty of time for experimental work as well.

Keep safe.

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Hi Moose  which bit of North Norfolk My brother lives in Hellesdon Norwich.    You are the same as me a shed full of useful bits usually called rubbish by others. Mine was build from mahogany  recycled from an old school staircase bits from an old printer ( shafts) and the hooks are modified gate latches. If you turn the barrel around in the clamp it makes the bearing so as to fit the arbour to release the spring from the retainer.  with a right angle hook it can be used for open loop end springs as well.  Versatile.    Keep safe 

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Hi watchweasol. I live nearer the coast, in Hickling (on the Broads). Lovely place.

I'll probably use the tried and trusted method of a gate hook as well. I made sure that mainspring barrel could just be rotated in it's "cassette" once the ring was out, to use as a pivot for the arbor. Just pull the cassette out, flip it front-to-back and reinsert.

Don't get me started on scrap wood and stuff in sheds. :lol:  My last two projects were for a man-cave bar I'm currently building from scrap pallets. I have included a couple of pics of some "accessories" I hope I don't get shot by the mods for straying off topic. If you look, you can see the pallet off-cuts. Apologies, if not appropriate.

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My middle name is pallet. :) I have built various things out of pallet including two little houses for my daughter, but the most related one to the watch/clockmaker hobby is a bench lamp here: bench lamp I live in the UK too (cambs), just came in from the garden, have been digging in the afternoon. Found potatoes but dunno how they ended up there as I have not planted them. :) Did u burn the pallet wood?

Thank you for the pictures. I understand that its built out of things lying around and that's the beauty of it. Well done once again. How do you flip the ratchet over if you have that fixed wooden bar there? Or is it enough if you switch that lever at the top near the threaded bar? Are you going to be able to put the sleeves on with the drill chunk on?

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The rachet spanner, how is that fixed to the threaded rod?

Going by what I can see in the photos, it's just friction between two nuts, neither of which are "locking" type.

Remember, you will have powerfull springs held only by friction, should just one of those nuts move fractionally.....

 

Bod

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Some answers...

I flip the ratchet just by using the switch on the spanner: it works just fine. As for the sleeves, that isa good question. I measure that the sleeve for a Smiths barrel should fit ok. Anything smaller will likely not, but I am only targeting Smiths clocks for now. 
 

it’s not just the friction of the nuts, but they have some threadlok added, a fairly strong one, but one which could be removed if I needed to. One of the issues I had was obtaining some hex bar stock. This is certainly on the radar for a Mark 2 version, but it will also necessitate changing the chuck end as well, so that will also need consideration. All in all, I have the strength required for the use that I intend putting it to. Likely only one Smiths clock or less per month. 

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UPDATE (Final)

After a couple of trial uses, everything works. But as we are in lockdown and I have much time on my hands (and I was already thinking about a Mark 2 version), I wanted to make a few modifications. So - This is not exactly a Mark 2 but a Mark 1.1

CHANGES: Changed the shaft to hex bar. Changed the chuck to smaller version to allow working with smaller barrel springs and also to facilitate connection to hex bar shaft. Make the ratchet spanner more integral to the design and lock securely in place. I also provided an additional safety bar, which can be extended to hold the winder handle, instead of just relying on the ratchet. For example: when inserting or removing main spring sleeves.

I had to saw down one of my ratchet spanners to use in this way, but the result justifies it (in my view). It is secured by a rebated wooden block which is screwed to the base, and then reinforced (and also as a cosmetic touch) adding a piece of aluminium profile, separately screwed into place.

I think that's all for now. It's been a fun build and I have learned a lot along the way. Maybe it does not need to be quite so long now - For example, I don't really need the central bit supporting the axle. But it's staying the way it is, until maybe I get bored again. Then  - Mark 2!

But for now, I have a Roamer in bits and the spares have arrived today, and an old Hamilton Pocket watch that a good friend is sending to me, to have a look at. So I'll be plenty busy for a bit.

Stay busy - Stay well - STAY IN.

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Well done Moose. I have loads of things on my plate atm, but I am going to revisit this thread once I start to build my own winder. I definitely want one not just for clocks, but for watches too. (i am going to buy the latter).

Could you please take a picture of the hinge from both sides of the glass door of your mantel clock? Mine is broken and I don't know whats missing here. I have two other mantel clocks, but one is also broken and the other one has a different hinge.

 

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Not sure mine is the same as either of the ones I have. The first one I have (with the Bakelite case, is soldered to the bezel ring and the bezel ring is riveted (nailed) to the case.

My oak cased one also looks a bit different to yours, but here it is anyway as there may be some similarities...

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Hi moose.  You get that pivot hole bushed?  I cannot tell from your picture which wheel it is that has such an enlarged pivot hole.

However it would be wise to invest in a set of ( even cheap) jewelers files.  Using the round file in the set,  i would even out to elongated pivot hole on the unworn side first before you start reaming it with a hand reamer.  A hand reamer will want to self center in the wrong place without first filing the hole to a more circular shape.  Your champfer edge (oil sink) is a guide to where the center of the original hole would be.

End diameters (where you would attach a pin vise) of bergeon reamers coincide with the diameters of their premade bushings.  Say the bushing you need OD is 2.50mm.  The reamer you use will end up reaming the hole out to a ID of say 2.47.

Im not sure if i can do this here, but if ud like me to walk you thru it on the phone, shoot me a message and ill give you my cell number.

There are tricks to this that arent hard but you need to know them in advance.  Haha

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all

I am just about to do my first bushing job so I was looking for guidance on tinternet and came across these posts, I mainly restore torsion clocks and the bushes don’t wear because the wheels go very slow, but I have a couple of Westminster chime clocks to do for family one old smiths Enfield and one better quality.

After reading about removing mainspring from barrel by hand not the safest thing to do for three reasons 1st Is safety if not done with all the gear on IE goggles and leather gloves if it slips out of your hand it can do a lot of damage to you 2nd when removing by hand it distorts the spring making it less powerful 3rd when installing it distorts even more causing it to bind against itself draining even more power better to make a spring winder, ( what I did) until the chuck let go and split the barrel meaning I had to silver solder the split and make a new hook and fit it 180 deg around the other side .

Now I have a Ollie baker style ( much safer) but if you make one be careful what chuck you use . I have a spare set of new sleeves if anyone interested I am in UK.

Now after the safety announcement back to the bushing I have read a bit looked at the NAWCC site ( I am a member anyway) and read this post I am going to do it.

And anyone interested in doing clocks it is worth joining NAWCC you can join the forum for free as there is a world of information for clocks and watches.

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Hi Moose  So "Contraption Mk1.5" has seen the daylight  Nice touches,  For the information to others, What size spanner did you use,   where to source hex bar, and  a very well done. They are not super smooth devices but they do the job nicely.   Just be careful with the sockets as the cheaper ones will split        as  Orologic found out as they are not for supporting a lot of tension.       I have had them split undoing nuts.    That was my reason for using a tap chuck the general construction of the eclipse chuck is quite robust,       all the best    cheers

 

 

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Hi     Luiz  looks like you have lost the two hinge blocks that the pins fit into, How they are fitted  dont know there is no sign of solder on the bezel.   Whos make is the clock, smiths ?.    I have about 24 mantel clocks in the collection I shall have to have a look.         Cheers

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  • 7 months later...
48 minutes ago, Chaddy said:

Hello Moose, watch a YouTube video of dparry bushing his clocks. No special bushing tools needed. He drills it out with a cordless drill and finishes it off with a broach. Hope this helps.

Good God no. Most of the videos on Youtube about how to repair clocks should be removed. You need the proper tools to do the job properly. 

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This topic was raised from the dead... ha ha.

Same “Ha ha” for using a cordless drill for bushing.

Good God no! Please take some better advice than looking at his videos, if that this is an example of his work.

Also, please look at the dates on posts before replying... this one was last replied to 8 months ago. Highly unlikely anyone was still looking for a response after so much time has passed.

Thanks for taking the time to reply anyway.

Edited by Moose
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