Smiths Enfield Mantel Clock escapement problem

[watchweasol]

Hi Lui   no not drinking   They are empty ones I use as movement covers , Looking for some marbles to glue on the top as handles.

The mallet and glove as the best way I use a plastic faced small hammer  the cap never fails to pop, the glove I dont need hands anre hard with gardening and general odd jobbing.     If you want measurements let me know     That CONTRAPTION  has pulled some big springs and put them back no probs.

[luiazazrambo]

I thought so, i was just teasing you. Can ask my daughter for marbles.  Maybe the "CONTRAPTION " was a bit harsh - had to look up in dictionary, i am not native - but OH says what he thinks so its not a bad thing after all. I might make an attempt to create one, but i have a long "to do" list so it might wait a year or two. I put one barrel together - without gloves haha - another one to go. I use an oily (windles) sponge to lubricate the spring. I press it against to both sides of the spring and i lubricate it alongside of the spring.

Edited April 14, 2020 by luiazazrambo
correcting english

[watchweasol]

Hi  Lui  No probs Sense of humor is intact.  The CONTRAPTION was build to do a Job not to look super smooth and do its job it does very well as many users of the Joe Collins original testify on the AWCC site who bought the originals from Joe $80,  worth to remove 400 day springs.  I modified it and beefed it up to take bigger springs which it does.   It has no posh name ,and unlike the Olly Baker one you have no need to hold the spring  barrel in a gloved hand  (safer).              Barrel looks good and clean, I also use windles oil but have got some oilbased super slippy grease "HOROGLIDE" from Meadows and Passmore in the UK  to try out, supposed to be the latest this for clock springs.

[Bod]

22 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I wouldn’t want to use that contraption to remove one of those powerful fusee springs. I’m sure it would pull it apart.

How much more powerful are fusee main springs, compared to normal mainsprings?

I have a fusee movement to attend to, needs stripping to remove dried oil, etc.

 

Bod

 

[oldhippy]

Just look at the size of the barrel is enough, at least double the width of the spring in a chiming clock and twice as strong, even more on the really big ones.  If this is your first fusee movement be careful. Always wear gloves to protect your hands. 

What mainspring winder do you have?

[luiazazrambo]

So if i understand correctly #1 is your spring letting down tool, could I have a picture of that please? What is #2 is used for? Why do you have a second bar for your second winder marked as #3? And do you have any bearings in the wood? It looks like you used hardwood, or is that some kind of furniture wood? I hope you don't mind to answer these questions.

I found this meanwhile: Joe Collins Spring Winder Plans , the thread leads to different threads to where you can find different variations, had no time to go trough them yet but planning to do so.

Edited April 14, 2020 by luiazazrambo

[Bod]

16 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Just look at the size of the barrel is enough, at least double the width of the spring in a chiming clock and twice as strong, even more on the really big ones.  If this is your first fusee movement be careful. Always wear gloves to protect your hands. 

What mainspring winder do you have?

This is an Erhard Franke copy of a Joe Collins design.

The rachet mechanism is a Racheting Ring spanner, and various sized 1/4 inch sockets are supplied for different arbours.

The last picture shows, a spring loaded flap behind the Barrel clamp, and a knob to adjust the flap angle, I have yet to discover it's use.

This is the clock I intend to work on, the coin for scale is a GB pound coin.

At present the clock has not worked for 20 years, and is fully wound, it only runs for a few seconds unless pressure is put on the upper wheels to add power.  The "oil" remains are closer to chewing gum than lubricant.

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

That is a passing strike Skeleton fusee clock. Do you have your mainspring winder attached to the bench? If not it will need to be fixed when you remove that spring. The correct way to clean these clocks is to polish every brass part, then lacquer the individual parts before you put it all back.   

[rodabod]

I’ve been practicing installing springs by hand rather than relying on a winder - for that skeleton clock I’d personally try by hand as it doesn’t look massive, although you can’t predict the spring strength absolutely.  
 

One thing I didn’t realise until recently is that it’s generally easier to have the barrel to the LHS of the vice holding the arbor if you are right-handed, which for me is counterintuitive. 

[oldhippy]

Always use a mainspring winder. Installing m/srings by hand will distort the spring, this can cause poor time keeping and can damage the inside of the barrel. You won;t be able to take out and put back in that spring with out damaging it .   

[watchweasol]

Hi Lui   The CONTRAPTION owas build using seasoned Mahogany hard wood, There  are  no metal bearings as the wood is very hard the tool used to locate the mainspring arbour is one of the keys from the mainspring let down set which slots into the key, That way it will accomodate arbours of different sizes. The second hook hanging on the end is for loop end springs and fits in place of the first hook on the base. they are interchangable.   The second picture was the Mk 1  and the bar is for arresting the handle when the spring is fully wound, used instead of a ratchet this allows hands free access to the spring retainer to be slid int the wound barrel. The tension is then taken up and the bar slid back to allow the spring to be unwound into the retainer and removed from the barrel .  It was designed to remove     Mainsprings from 400 day clocks upto the three train mantle and bracket clocks. Not for the fusee clock as the barrel in a fusee clock is about one and a half times bigger and has a considerable spring which deserves respect, I think the Olly Baker winder would struggle with one as you have to grip the barrel by hand while tensioning the spring         

[Moose]

Well,  I’m starting to get some work done on a basic winder, for the hobby stuff I’ll be doing. This is midway through doing some of the basic cuts and planning. I’ll call this my Mark 1 once it’s done. It’s taking the Franke design as it’s basis.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Moose

[watchweasol]

Hi  Looking good so far moose  once done will suffice for most spring jobs apart from the fusee who's spring would drive a car. keep up the good work . Like to see the finished article. 

[luiazazrambo]

I need to fine tune it and the case needs working on it, hands polishing etc, but i am more or less ready with the movement.

[oldhippy]

Good old Benny Hill music.

[watchweasol]

Looking good Lui ,  Its always pleasing to watch a clock movement working, after all these years I still love to watch them working. Its very satisfying when you have cleaned ,re-bushed oiled and assembled a clock to hear that tick tock beautiful noise   enjoy looking at it  you did it.   take care and stay safe. 

[Moose]

A little bit more completed. Got the holder for the barrel sorted as well as it’s slide mount. Also the spindle holders for the winder/unwinder. Now going to look at how to recreate the reverser/ratchet mechanism. May just do it the same way as the Franke design, seems most convenient. Anyway - it seems we have another three weeks of lockdown as yet to Continue to experiment and build. 
 

I may yet shorten the winding side once I have the ratcheting mechanism sorted out. It’s looking a bit long now.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Moose

[luiazazrambo]

Nice woodworking skills Moose, did you use a router? I see the base is decking wood, i am making planters out of it at the moment. Keep posting your work, I enjoy it.

[luiazazrambo]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:14 AM, watchweasol said:

Looking good Lui ,  Its always pleasing to watch a clock movement working, after all these years I still love to watch them working. Its very satisfying when you have cleaned ,re-bushed oiled and assembled a clock to hear that tick tock beautiful noise   enjoy looking at it  you did it.   take care and stay safe. 

I don't think that it is possible to ever get bored with watching a watch movement in operation. This is an absolutely amazing and wonderful world. "Accidentally" found two more in my cabinet.  Take care.

[Moose]

3 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

Nice woodworking skills Moose, did you use a router? I see the base is decking wood, i am making planters out of it at the moment. Keep posting your work, I enjoy it.

You are correct - the wood is a left over from a decking project. It is very heavy duty, about 30mm thick, so provides a stable and heavy base. Don’t have a router, but used a small table saw to make the channel for the centre panel and to cut the step for the butt joint at the end. It’s coming along today as well. Maybe another pic later today.

[watchweasol]

Nice one Moose  coming along nicely.  

[Moose]

Did most of the work now and it’s looking OK. Still need to fit the spring retaining hook and I’m waiting for delivery of a set of Main spring sleeves, which I should get early next week off eBay.

I guess it’s a sort of mashup of the Franke and Olly Baker designs. I used a ratcheting ring spanner to hold the spring tension whilst winding. The threaded axle just passes through it and I used a pair of nuts to transfer the rotational movement. I can reverse the direction of the ratchet very easily by flicking the ratchet over. I took this from the Franke design but did not want to go to the hassle of rebating the ratchet into the woodwork, so just used a bar to prevent the ratchet handle rotating. The bar design also allows the axle to slide back and forth whilst attaching etc.

I think for a “Mark 1”, it’s OK and certainly does the job. Will likely be all I need as a hobbyist anyway.

If I was to change anything, I might change the axle to a hex bar (like Franke) and fit the ratchet so it looks integral to the design. But that would mean having to source a new chuck design as my existing chuck screws directly onto the threaded axle so I would need a different solution. Or just use sockets, like the Franke.
 

Anyway, there it is, back to watch repairing: the parts for my vintage Roamer Superking are with me now...

Edited April 17, 2020 by Moose

[watchweasol]

Hi Moose  thats a stalwart job, Its a combination of a few designs I have seen on the net, a commendable piece of work .  Used as intended for hobbist work should last for years. I thought about the ratchet idea for mine but it meant sourcing the hex rod and rebating, although it makes a neater finish does not detract from the functionality well done.   If I ever rebuild "CONTRAPTION Mk ll  "    I might do it differently        cheers

[Moose]

Yeah, I did think a lot about the hex rod idea and rebating in the ratchet handle. But I already had a spare chuck which needed a threaded fixing, so I just used threaded stock rod, so it was the easy way out for me.

like you though, Mark 2 (should it come to light), will have that refinement. I quite like the Franke design, so would likely head more towards that.

Thanks for the comments.

[watchweasol]

Hi Moose  what was the chuck off a drill of some sorts.