Raymond Weil Keyless Repair help and movement screw retainers.

[MrUseless]

Being the clumsy ****** I am I dropped by beautiful Raymond Weil maestro on a hard floor after so carefully protecting it when I went to the gym. 
The minute hand came loose so figured I would press that back on and hoped nothing else would be broken on it.

Unfortunately it wasn’t as I undid the screws holding the movement in place I noticed two were broken. Not sure what these are called sorry perhaps lugs, collars or washers. These locate in a groove (again probably the wrong term) inside the case. 
anyway I was pleased once I got the minute hand back on it worked great. I went to put the crown in to wind up the watch and test it kept time. I must have pressed to hard and ruined the keyless works.

So - I’ve taken the hands off now and the ring around the edge of the watch and I think I now need to take the dial off to access the keyless works. I’ve tried to photograph two semi circles which I think are the next step in the process. Am I right? If so how so I get the dial/face off? I’ve paused for now in case I’m wrong.

Also, in the meantime if anyone knows how I can get those washers/collars please let me know.

Thanks in advance for anyone taking their time to read this, really hoping to get this back working. The quote I got to repair it was about the same as it’s value so it’s either fix it or sadly leave it in my parts drawer!

[watchweasol]

What has probably happened is the clutch and crown wheel are displaced due to removing the stem with it in the wrong position allowing the parts to become free. as you have rightly diagnosed the problem next step is to remove the dial and hands, Have a look round the circumference of the watch you should find two small screws these hold the dial feet and therefore hold the dial in place. Back off the screws enough to allow you to remove the dial. If the watch has a calendar ring on it that will have to be removed as well to gain access to the key less work and ti realign it. Once done  refit the stem.now pull the stem to the set position  and remove the stem the parts should stay in place. Reassemble the watch and re it to case then re insert stem.  The watch looks like an eta movement if you can find and post the caliber number(near the balance) we may be able to find a tech sheet for you to aid assembly,

[Marc]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Have a look round the circumference of the watch you should find two small screws these hold the dial feet and therefore hold the dial in place

Not on this movement, which is an ETA of some sort (or derivative thereof). There are 2 cut aways in the bridges which I think are what you are referring to. They should expose a banana shaped lever or cam at the edge of the main plate, with a pip at one end and a pivot at the other. Gently lever out the pip end away from the movement so that it pivots around the other end. As you swing it out it will release the dial foot. Once both dial feet are released the dial can lift off. I will try and post pics later if I can find a similarly equipped movement. 

[HectorLooi]

Hello MrUseless, I'm a newbie just like you. I can sympathize with you. Knowing that you might have contributed to the demise of your favorite watch. This was exactly how I got into watch repair. 

Thankfully our fearless leader has several good videos on YouTube that will walk you through this difficult times. I was extremely lucky as Mark used the exact same movement as mine for his video. ( ETA 2824 or 2836, I can't remember)

Good luck and Welcome!

[Nucejoe]

Hi Mruseless, useful tech sheet helps and watchweasol is the source, give the caliber please. Best wishes

[watchweasol]

Hi  We will assume its an ETA or derivativ of such and have enclosed tech sheet.    Marc was right on this movement there are two sickle attachments within cut outs on the circumference these swing out releasing the dail feet.  Thanks to Marc for the correction and sorry for the duff gen.

_C_T_CT_2824-2_ESI_481825_24.pdf

[watchweasol]

Hi here is another breakdown of the 2824 which i think is close to you movement.

ETA_ETA 2824-2.pdf

[Marc]

As promised..

These from an ETA 2836.

Here with the clamp closed...

and open.

Be careful not to rotate the clamp beyond the little stop post on the main plate.

@watchweasol, definitely more of a sickle than a banana... 

[MrUseless]

Thank you, you’re all so helpful! Without this I’d just be lost!

I’ll try this afternoon under the light. Here are photos of the circumference of the watch at the moment 

[MrUseless]

This is a Raymond Weil Maestro 2827. Fortunately no date wheel to deal with on mine.

[watchweasol]

Hi The dial foot clamp is in last pic just above the thumb you can just see the end of the clip

[MrUseless]

To update here is my progress. 
Thanks for the tips on releasing the dial that was so clear and easy to follow!

 

My photos are a bit naff but can you tell what is going on with the keyless from these?

[HectorLooi]

Could you get a high magnification shot of the keyless. The photos don't really show the winding pinion clearly. 

I suspect the winding pinion has slipped and the yoke and hacking lever is out of place.

[jdm]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I suspect the winding pinion has slipped and the yoke and hacking lever is out of place.

It happened to me today just trying to reinsert stem to a genuine ETA having the same keyless design. It is not even the simpler ,or or better designed system.

[MrUseless]

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

Ive studied the schematics which show the keyless mechanism clearly but I’m not sure how to access them. I think there is a plate that holds it in place but before I do anything can I check with you I’m doing it correctly.

 

see the pictures attached below - I’ve circled what I think I need to undo. Is this spring loaded?

[HSL]

It seems your keyless work has been misaligned, this isn´t a big thing to fix but it seems you are missing the date corrector wheel to.
Even if this movement is a Sellita SW200-1 you should be able to put it together with the 2824-2 manual previously provided.
Some time ago I made some PDF:s which are on this site too on how to take a 2824-2 apart and put it together again, take a look in those and you will be fine.. 

[MrUseless]

I don’t have a date wheel on this watch. I don’t think anything is missing there - I took photos as soon as I took the dial off.

[HSL]

Then everything except the Keyless seeems OK .. 
BTW here is the link.. Just ignore the date ring part  in the description.

The links is below the picture..

 

[MrUseless]

Hi sorry for all the questions. I followed the guide which was very helpful as well as a YouTube which I found useful to compliment. 
 

I tested it and the stem just came out with no resistance although I was sure the keyless works were placed correctly (perhaps not).

first can I check my stem is ok with you all? Here is the picture of my stem.
 

[HSL]

Hi again,
Yes the stem looks to be in a good shape.
If the stem came just right out it might be because it wasn't fully inserted, sometimes one have to gently push the setting lever nobb with a screwdriver which fits in the slot at the same time you insert the stem. If you use a screwdriver with the propper width you don´t risk to push the nobb all the way again and misalign the setting lever again, so don't use a too pointy thing.
If the keyless is correctly assembled then the little nobb in the end of the setting lever should go straight into the slott at the back of your stem.

Edited April 1, 2020 by HSL

[MrUseless]

Great news. I disassembled and reassembled and I can now get to the setting position fine and I can see the minute wheel turning as expected.

 

the bad news is I can’t wind up the watch. It feels far too tight and I don’t want to turn it any harder than I am in case I break anything. 
Does this sound like a common issue? I was thinking perhaps I’ve over tightened something or that the setting lever jumper is bent.

[HectorLooi]

It could just be that the mainspring is fully wound. Just let the watch run awhile and try again. Or you could just let down some power from the mainspring and try winding it again.

[MrUseless]

It isn’t because it’s wound, you can tell with the Movement. It feels tight as well even on the setting position, much more resistant than a similar Raymond Weil freelancer watch I own and just tried. It was working before I took it apart so I’m assuming it’s something I’ve done.

[HSL]

Sounds like your on your way in the right direction, maybe some part is a little bit scew or you just need to lubricate it a bit.
And you are right about the fully wound theory, an automatic watch has mainspring that will slipp a bit when fully wound, the mainspring is held in place by friction so you don't have to worry about the winding force. On a manual the spring is held in place by a notch in the barrel and because of that you cant wind it to far.

[MrUseless]

Sorry everyone more questions. This watch may be in a worse shape than a realised. So the setting position and keyless all seems fine, i can see the position move in the setting jumper and I can wind the watch fine.

ive stripped the keyless again and reinserted the stem again to check. When I manually push the sliding pinion onto the winding pinion and turn I am met with the same resistance. I can’t turn the stem.

i can wind up the watch manually with the oscillating weight (I think it’s called the half circle metal at the back) and it all works fine.

 

ive tried to photograph what I think is the issue. Sorry I don’t know the correct terms, but this wheel seems stuck. 
Also the bearing needs replacing on the oscillating weight it seems to have play.

 

Ive been trying to work out what is wrong studying the manuals but am unsure now sorry to keep asking!