Watch slows down when setting time

[jdrichard]

Have a problem with a new Russian Amphibian auto watch. When I set the time the balance slows down. The stem seems to be affecting the power to the balance. Any ideas and how to fix?

 

 

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[nickelsilver]

Canon pinion friction may be a bit tight, in some cases it will actually stop the watch. Some watchmakers back in the day considered it "right" when it'd stop the watch, it gave a sort of hack system.

Imagine if you grab the center wheel pivot going up through the dial, and twist anticlockwise. You're going against the power from the barrel. This is what the canon pinion is doing.

[Nucejoe]

Typical of Russian new watches,  most refuse to run unless lubed.  Oil the min train. 

[jdrichard]

Typical of Russian new watches,  most refuse to run unless lubed.  Oil the min train. 

I’ll try. I was a bit disappointed as it is a nice watch.


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[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, jdrichard said:

I’ll try. I was a bit disappointed as it is a nice watch.


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Oh,  its as Nickelsilver said, canon pinion and perhaps minute train, with the one you on your bench.

I meant , some don't want to run regardless of the crown position, especially if the new piece has been sitting unused for couple of years.

[watchweasol]

Hi JD    Does it do the same when the hands are moved clockwise or only anti clockwise if so I second Nicklesilvers opinion on this one but also can see where Nucejoe is coming from as regards lubrication.

One other thing do the Russian manufacturers use the same oils and greases as the Swiss or are they on their own home produced oils and greases.  If so we may have quality issues here.

[jdrichard]

The shame is that I just purchased this watch and am in the fence whether I should return it or fix it. Not that expensive, and love the look. But I do love a challenge.


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[Endeavor]

It's very normal; nearly every Vostok movement does that...... it's called the "poor-mans"-hack.

Nothing to worry about and certainly not a reason to send it back or "fix"-it. These are great watches and unbeatable with regards to Value/price ratio. In fact they beat nearly all, if not all Swiss watches as for sophistication & design for the price.

Just have a look at this link; what a fantastic piece of engineering for slightly over $40 !! ; https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-2415-2416-self-winding-function-reversing-wheels-revised-5134701.html

[jdrichard]

So I took the movement apart and oiled under the cap jewels upper and lower and oiled all the normal areas. Got home tonight and now the amplitude is finally good.


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[jdrichard]

It's very normal; nearly every Vostok movement does that...... it's called the "poor-mans"-hack.
Nothing to worry about and certainly not a reason to send it back or "fix"-it. These are great watches and unbeatable with regards to Value/price ratio. In fact they beat nearly all, if not all Swiss watches as for sophistication & design for the price.
Just have a look at this link; what a fantastic piece of engineering for slightly over $40 !! ; https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-2415-2416-self-winding-function-reversing-wheels-revised-5134701.html

Great article


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[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, jdrichard said:

So I took the movement apart and oiled under the cap jewels upper and lower and oiled all the normal areas. Got home tonight and now the amplitude is finally good.

Out of curiosity  did you record before and after amplitude numbers?

[jdrichard]

Out of curiosity  did you record before and after amplitude numbers?

80 deg and 209 after oiling. It was a new movement.


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[Endeavor]

11 hours ago, jdrichard said:

80 deg and 209 after oiling. It was a new movement.

First; 80 degrees can't be right.

Second; 209 is very low as well ...... are you sure you did set the lifting angle to 42 degrees?

Edited March 18, 2020 by Endeavor

[jdrichard]

First; 80 degrees can't be right.
Second; 209 is very low as well ...... are you sure you did set the lifting angle to 42 degrees?

Here are the new results with the 42 deg lift angle....very good now.

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[yankeedog]

If the lift angle is defaulted to 52 degrees  the amplitude  would be a false reading. I would  call your results  acceptable. Btw I love the amphibia  case.it is unequalled  at it's  price.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by yankeedog

[Endeavor]

Maybe I go nuts like the rest of the world, but since when has a Vostok 2416b movement 21,600 BPH ?????

Edited March 18, 2020 by Endeavor

[jdrichard]

If the lift angle is defaulted to 52 degrees  the amplitude  would be a false reading. I would  call your results  acceptable. Btw I love the amphibia  case.it is unequalled  at it's  price.
 
 
 
 
 

Agree


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[jdrichard]

Maybe I go nuts like the rest of the world, but since when has a Vostok 2416b movement 21,600 BPH ?????

I take a slow-mo video of the balance to confirm the amplitude. Does not lie.


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[JohnR725]

42 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

Maybe I go nuts like the rest of the world, but since when has a Vostok 2416b movement 21,600 BPH ?????

I'm guessing it's one of the other problems of whatever this is that's masquerading like a timing machine? According to the site below it's not a 21,600 bph watch.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Wostok_2416B

[Marc]

Couldn't remember what mine was so I just put it on the Timegrapher.

It is indeed a 19,800BPH movement and with the lift angle set at 42 degrees it's returning a healthy 287 degrees of amplitude at full wind, it's on its original m/s and is currently 5 years down the line from it's last service (documented here).

@jdrichard there does seem to be something not quite right with some of the data that your timing setup is reporting, unless it's something other than a 2416b of course.

[yankeedog]

Maybe the bph  was manually entered?

[jdrichard]

Maybe the bph  was manually entered?

I’ll check it again this morning, I’m sure I put it on auto. I can also use eTimer....


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[yankeedog]

I have also seen sticky hairsprings deceive  my  timegrapher. Shorter swings can be interpreted as a higher rate in auto detect. 

[jdrichard]

New data:


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[jdrichard]

Couldn't remember what mine was so I just put it on the Timegrapher.
It is indeed a 19,800BPH movement and with the lift angle set at 42 degrees it's returning a healthy 287 degrees of amplitude at full wind, it's on its original m/s and is currently 5 years down the line from it's last service (documented here).
[mention=1704]jdrichard[/mention] there does seem to be something not quite right with some of the data that your timing setup is reporting, unless it's something other than a 2416b of course.

So Marc. You mentioned and I saw the thin metal spring at the bottom of the second hand wheel. What is that all about. My second hand actually fell off today, so I disassembled the watch, took of the rotor and put a white screwdriver in the hole that could be the bottom of the second hand and the spring that holds it in. Then I pressed the hand on again. Did I do this right?


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