Recommendation For Watchmaker Lathe

[vinn3]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  I think its way over the top you are paying for the bergeon name there. I picked one up in the UK for £350 with cross slide,   ,bernard chuck,   drill attachment,   assortmet of collets and cutting tools all mounted with motor etc. Its  an American pattern and quite versatile.

    good score !    but,    some of the new members might not  know how to bid on the net.   I am one.    vin

[jdrichard]

Wow that’s quite a collection. If you have anything you think might be suitable for sale maybe you could send me a message?

Ok


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[nickelsilver]

How much of an issue do you think this is? Is it a deal breaker? I don’t want to train myself on something that is totally non-standard.  But that set does look great.

 

I would say enough of an issue to avoid it.

 

My recommendation would be a WW pattern lathe, often referred to as American style. Brands to look for are Boley, Boley-Leinen, Lorch, Wolf Jahn from Germany, Levin and Derbyshire from the states.

 

The Brits had a number of excellent makers too, but didn't produce as many as the Germans and Yanks. The Pultra you linked is a great machine, the only drawback is it takes 10mm collets which are harder to find than 8mm. On the other hand it is very complete and the price is fair. It's top quality and plug-and-play... and you always can sell it for the same money.

 

 

[Jon]

I agree with nickelsilver... keep away from 10 mm collet lathes. Look for 8 mm collet versions, as you'll find more collets of that size. 6 mm and 10 mm collets are like unicorn poo!

I have a WW type lathe, rather than a 'Geneva' type lathe, because it is versatile and can handle slightly bigger work, especially if I'm using a cross slide, but can cope with small stuff like re pivoting and pivot polishing etc.

The good thing about WW bed lathes is, they have great tail stocks that help with drilling, rather than Geneva type lathes that don't.

WW bed lathes also have a bigger clearance from the lathe bed, which is great especially using a face plate if I need to drill a hole in a watch mainplate to fit a new bush. I find them a lot more versatile, but that's just me.

I know it's a minefield when it comes to buying a lathe. Go with a WW bed like JD Richard owns. So much better in all respects.

If JD can't sort you out, I have one spare...

[Jon]

I always love seeing your collection JD!

[jdrichard]

I always love seeing your collection JD!

Thank man. Be very hard to get rid of one:(


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[jdrichard]

All 8mm and compatible with my 50 collet set. Adding a pivot to a broken Seconds wheel long pivot; this aft. Need to find my pivot wire:)


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[nickelsilver]

Here's a set you don't see very often Favorite Lathe

 

Yes, it's expensive, but it's very complete, and these are really good machines. I sold one about 15 years ago that didn't have the milling attachment, wheel chucks, the simple tailstock with pivot drilling discs and with a smaller set of collets for 2500 and that was a friend who bought it. It's pretty much exactly the same as a Schaublin 70, just smaller.

 

If you tried to piece together that set it would take possibly years, and possibly be more expensive.

 

I wouldn't say not to go for that Pultra. It's a really nice setup at a nice price. You've probably already tracked down the page on Tony Griffith's site, but here it is anyway Pultra.

You can see down the page an adapter for going from 10mm to 8mm, which Tony admits may have been shop made. If you got that Pultra, and were smitten with lathe work, it's likely you'd end up getting some other lathe down the line as well; as this is based on the WW pattern, while it's fairly certain tailstocks wouldn't interchange with another maker (the WW or Webster Whitcomb pattern was used more as a guideline than an absolute standard by most maker), the slide certainly will. It can be very handy to have two lathes at times.

 

Tony's site also has a for sale page, often with a number of interesting lathes for watchmaking listed.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by nickelsilver

[rodabod]

In the UK there are plenty of lathes for sale on a regular basis. There's less WW-pattern ones, but there's nothing wrong with Geneva-pattern lathes. More importantly you want a headstock which turns smoothly with no excessive play.

[nickelsilver]

14 hours ago, rodabod said:

In the UK there are plenty of lathes for sale on a regular basis. There's less WW-pattern ones, but there's nothing wrong with Geneva-pattern lathes. More importantly you want a headstock which turns smoothly with no excessive play.

While I'm a fan of the WW pattern, I agree that for most work a Geneva (bar bed) pattern is OK, many many watchmakers and even clockmakers have used them to great success over the last century.

 

Most, like easily 9 out of 10, headstocks one encounters use a hardened steel spindle running in hardened steel plain bearings. Hardened steel on hardened steel is a terrifically durable combination, if there is just a hint of oil there they are practically indestructable. And many lathes saw little actual use, so it's rare for a lathe from a quality maker would have messed up headstock bearings. What would be important to me, after the headstock, would be a tailstock that takes collets, and very importantly, an excellent cross slide with large, readable, settable micrometer thimbles on the cranks. 

 

Many older slides have tiny thimbles, that are not necessarily settable. If looking at Lorch, some of their old stuff not only had tiny thimbles, but had screws with 0.75mm pitch (as opposed to 1mm), and they were backwards in rotation from all other lathes. A fellow I worked for had one, it was his first lathe from when he was young and he loved it. I absolutely could not use it, my muscle memory just wouldn't allow me to turn the cranks correctly. Not to mention keeping track of 0.75mm per rotation! He had numerous other more modern lathes that were "normal", but man he loved that weird little Lorch.

 

All that said Lorch is of the highest quality and their more modern stuff was vastly improved in usability. Their KD 50 model is one of the nicest watchmaker lathes ever built. Steffen Pahlow's superb Youtube channel features many different Lorch machines in his work.

Edited March 4, 2020 by nickelsilver

[rodabod]

One thing I will also add, is that in the early days, you may not want to use a cross-slide at all. Not that you should avoid a set if it includes one! Most of the work I do is by hand. I don't want to have to set up a cross slide if I can hand grave in a matter of seconds.

Also, in my experience, cross slide work is better on a sturdier bed like a WW or something bigger like a Schaublin. I believe the reason is because you can (perhaps unintentionally) be applying significant pressure when using a cross slide which can cause unwanted movement due to play.

[margolisd]

Just to say thank you everyone for all these pointers and advice. I've made contact with Penny Farthing Tools (the guys seems brilliant - thanks @clockboy) and I might pop over there and look at some options. But I've learnt a lot from this thread so thank you!

[watchwolf]

Hey

 

How did this lathe purchase run end up? Did you get the Cowells or Sincere or something else?