Recommendation For Watchmaker Lathe

[clockboy]

I have a Star lathe & over the years I have gradually built a nice collection of collets & tools. All are used but work just fine.
The hardest part when making parts using a watchmakers lathe is not the make of lathe but the skills required to use one. My brother in law purchased a Chinese lathe a few years ago & he produces excellent work from it. 
 

[david]

Clockboy,

That is well said.  The important thing is that the lathe is set up and properly adjusted to do the job. Earlier today I watched a video on this forum showing a Dremel tool wired down to a bench and a piece of angle iron used as a T-Rest. He then proceeded to make a watch stem out of a nail. After more than 30 years in manufacturing as a tool and die maker, CNC programmer,   machine designer  and automation circuit engineer, I have to say that this video rocked my world. I could not have dreamed what I saw in that video; hats off to that guy.

david

[david]

JDM,

Turns are an early form of lathe that utilizes  two dead centers instead of  a rotating headstock. The piece to be turned is secured to a driving dog that is engaged to a pulley with a pin. As the pulley is turned the pin pushes against the driving dog and rotates the part. A Jacot tool is really a specialized form of turnes. The pulley can be driven by a bow, handwheel or motor. The advantage of turning this way is that rotating the part around dead centers is extremely accurate. The disadvantage is that the work has to be rotated very slowly. Using this method the part can be removed from the lathe, measured and repositioned with almost no loss of accuracy.

There is a Steffen Pahlow video on Youtube called TURNING BETWEEN CENTERS ON A LATHE that shows a part being turned on a set of turns. 

david

[david]

JDM,

Go to Youtube and take a look at this video:

Watchmaking, Lorch LUD Drehbänkchen, Small Lathe

by Steffen Pahlow

It is another good video showing the set up and use of turns.

david

Edited August 27, 2016 by david

[clockboy]

Another great vid from Steffen Pahlow. A very skilled watchmaker of the highest caliber.

[Rafal]

There is one more maker of watchmaker's lathe's, base in UK - Cowells, not cheap but all hand made, with certs of accuracy etc. Sometimes can be fond second hand.

[david]

Fafal,

I have only seen pictures of a Cowells Lathe. They are beautiful looking machines but seem to be very expensive and are not radially available in the USA. 

Here is a picture of a Derbyshire Instrument Lathe from Tony Lathes:

 

The bottom picture is a Cowells Lathe.

david

[Rafal]

Cowells model you posted above is ME which is made for metal engineering, they have another model for watchmakers - CW 90 (I think) There is a website where are offered used ones, but mostly ME type:

http://www.myford-lathes.com/other_lathes.htm

Its from UK so it may be a problem for those on other side of big pond. But prices are more acceptable... Those are great lathes, I hope maybe I will get one of them

Edited August 31, 2016 by Rafal

[david]

Rafal,

Those are nice looking machines. From the pictures the ME and CW models seem to be similar except for the chucking components. One of the pictures shows an IME Lathe. IMEs are among the finest watchmaker lathes ever produced. The good news is most people don't know about them and they can be purchased for a reasonable price.

david

[jnash]

i used to have a cowells CW90, great machines, but didnt make the most of it - so recently sold it as it was a very expensive ornament!

 

[maclerche]

Cowells CW90 is on my whis list... it takes 8mm. collets. At the same time powerful enough to produce mostly tools ... I will say that it is option number 1 to a schaublin 70. Read more about it here >>>>>

Hint ... realy good stuff at that website!!

 

[margolisd]

Lathe experts, would you mind giving me some help? Do you think this is a good buy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bergeon-8-mm-lathe-with-original-accesories-motor-table-and-other-Parts/324012283798?hash=item4b70a31796:g:FiQAAOSw29Zd9Ie3#viTabs_0

Buying a used lathe seems to be an absolute minefield. There are so many makes and so much available second hand!

I want to be able to make my own parts like pivots and balance staffs. I already have a great Jacot Tool for finishing. But now I'd really like a great watchmaker's lathe that I know I can find accessories for. I do like Burgeon products but I'm a sucker for expensive brands. I guess that's how I became interested in watches in the first place. 

Although this listing doesn't have much info, it also doesn't have too many disclaimers! It's advertised as perfect working condition! So I should be able to lean on my eBay buyer protection if it turns out to be a lemon.

 

 

[jdrichard]

Way too expensive. I have 13 lathes and may want to lighten the load.


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[margolisd]

Wow that’s quite a collection. If you have anything you think might be suitable for sale maybe you could send me a message?

[vinn3]

34 minutes ago, margolisd said:

Lathe experts, would you mind giving me some help? Do you think this is a good buy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bergeon-8-mm-lathe-with-original-accesories-motor-table-and-other-Parts/324012283798?hash=item4b70a31796:g:FiQAAOSw29Zd9Ie3#viTabs_0

Buying a used lathe seems to be an absolute minefield. There are so many makes and so much available second hand!

I want to be able to make my own parts like pivots and balance staffs. I already have a great Jacot Tool for finishing. But now I'd really like a great watchmaker's lathe that I know I can find accessories for. I do like Burgeon products but I'm a sucker for expensive brands. I guess that's how I became interested in watches in the first place. 

Although this listing doesn't have much info, it also doesn't have too many disclaimers! It's advertised as perfect working condition! So I should be able to lean on my eBay buyer protection if it turns out to be a lemon.

 

 

    a trained machinist  serves a 4 year aprentistship.     if you want to specialize on watch lathes,  look for a book "using a watch makers lathe."   or  repair a used lathe.  vin

[margolisd]

Well I've read The Modern Watchmaker's Lathe cover to cover and also studied De Carle's book (I think he's brilliant). I might be a bit too old for an apprenticeship at 38!

[Tmuir]

Yes seems too expensive to me and does not come with many collets.

Collets are expensive you want to get as big a set as possible when you buy the lathe else you could end up spending as much again on collets

[vinn3]

38 minutes ago, margolisd said:

Well I've read The Modern Watchmaker's Lathe cover to cover and also studied De Carle's book (I think he's brilliant). I might be a bit too old for an apprenticeship at 38!

    good show.   trial and error works also.  vin

[vinn3]

39 minutes ago, Tmuir said:

Yes seems too expensive to me and does not come with many collets.

Collets are expensive you want to get as big a set as possible when you buy the lathe else you could end up spending as much again on collets

     yes,  proper set of collets are essential.   what about the difference of MM or SAE  measurement and thread pitches ?    vin

[wls1971]

You need to check out German ebay, prices are far easier on the pocket,

This seems about right for  a almost complete boxed lathe

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALTES-UHRMACHER-WERKZEUGE-LORCH-DREHBANK-DREHSTUHL-8-MM/383425549061?hash=item5945f19305:g:IXIAAOSwsCdeSqdv 

Factor in shipping and customs, also ask question about condition, I have used this seller before with no problems

UHRMACHER DREHBANK  (watchmakers Lathe )is a good search phrase to use on German ebay.

[nickelsilver]

The Bergeon is definitely too expensive. The Lorch above looks great, but it's a reversed lathe; the Germans sometimes liked working with the headstock on the right. The lathe itself can be oriented as you like, but the cross slide can't be reversed.

[clockboy]

Looks a bit pricey. Also a personal presence this, for me no tip over rest. When cutting a balance etc the tip over makes life so much easier. If your based in the UK then this company are always worth looking at for tools/lathes etc. https://pennyfarthingtools.co.uk

[watchweasol]

Hi  I think its way over the top you are paying for the bergeon name there. I picked one up in the UK for £350 with cross slide,   ,bernard chuck,   drill attachment,   assortmet of collets and cutting tools all mounted with motor etc. Its  an American pattern and quite versatile.

[margolisd]

19 minutes ago, clockboy said:

Looks a bit pricey. Also a personal presence this, for me no tip over rest. When cutting a balance etc the tip over makes life so much easier. If your based in the UK then this company are always worth looking at for tools/lathes etc. https://pennyfarthingtools.co.uk

Thanks for this. I am in the UK and didn’t know about these guys. Great tip. There is some interesting stuff listed. How about this? It looks pretty comprehensive.

https://pennyfarthingtools.co.uk/pultra-1750-10mm-bench-lathe/2020/02/07/

[margolisd]

33 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

The Bergeon is definitely too expensive. The Lorch above looks great, but it's a reversed lathe; the Germans sometimes liked working with the headstock on the right. The lathe itself can be oriented as you like, but the cross slide can't be reversed.

How much of an issue do you think this is? Is it a deal breaker? I don’t want to train myself on something that is totally non-standard.  But that set does look great.