Getting Scammed For 12 Grand...

[jaycey]

I followed this auction that ended the weekend http://www.ebay.com/itm/271737923570?rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=766288200774&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

 

I reported to eBay twice and e-mailed Rolex St James. Nothing was done.

Some poor sucker won't have a clue their new pride and joy is a fake & some low life made a mint.

 

This is a very high grade fake. Although to anyone with a good reference and a keen eye would know within seconds what it was.

 

For a excellent reference blog on vintage Rolex then have a look at this http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.co.uk/ this is a fantastic reference sublime photo's.

 

A couple of easy tells on the eBay watch are, apart from the seller & listing that you would run a mile from...

The coronet on the dial has a gaping hole where the gen has a squashed oval.

The numbers of the 110 on the bezel are too widely spaced, this is a common issue with all the fake bezels.

The wording on the dial "Rolex Oyster Cosmograph" apears bolder, fatter and less defined than on the genuine.

Look at the eBay picture 5, zoom in and see the gap between the bezel & case.

Look at the engraved bridges on the eBay version, they look newer and a different shade than the rest of the movement.

Look at the regulator screw on the eBay movement, there is no groove in the regulator plate under the screw to adjust the arm.

 

Considering that a Valjoux 72- movement is going for £800 plus on eBay you get an idea of how much money & effort has gone into this to pass it off as genuine.

 

Be carefull at there guys ;)

[Geo]

Oooooooooouch!

I for one could not have guessed it was fake. There is no way I would shell out 12 grand to someone who only has 10 feedback, especially when the only thing he has sold has received negative!!!!

As we say in Scotland, " That's a sair ane". :-(

[WillFly]

I don't know enough about Rolex to be able to tell whether that's a fake or not, but the gap between the case and the bezel does look ridiculous, and the overall lettering on the bezel looks rough.

 

In any case, I would never, ever spend £12,000 on eBay!

[clockboy]

Ebay needs to get on top of this. It seems far to much scamming going on with no address to this growing problem .

[bobm12]

I have no words...12K is a lot of money for one transaction regardless!

[Blacklab]

If you were going to spend this sort of money on a watch, would you buy it on fleabay? Even if you were still keen would you not give it a thorough going over first? Trouble is there are plenty of people out there not doing their homework & only have themselves to blame when it all goes south. Always remember that if it looks to good to be true, it is - no probably about it.

[frenchie]

This can't possibly be a legit transaction. Someone who can pay this much for a watch doesn't get it on the bay. If you're smart enough to get your bank to give you a £12,000 line of credit, or to have this much money just sitting in your checking account, you are smart enough to not buy this stuff on the internet. If you're not, then you won't keep that money very long and you might as well write me check.

[jaycey]

It's staggering and not the first time I have seen this happen (this was the highest value) I have seen 3-5k Omegas, Submariners etc. go like this despite reporting them.

 

I contacted this seller and asked him how he would feel if the watch that he was going to spend his life savings on turned out to be fake. The best he could reply was "I am a respected lawyer, do not slander me any further or I will take action"

I begged him to take action, stating he was pond life and a low life scammer.

 

Unfortunately, some peoples greed drives them blindly on. Both the seller & buyer in this case :(

[DrRock]

Here's one for $65,000 (yup, $65k...!)  Presumably this one is genuine, going on the points raised in the first post?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAGE-DAYTONA-6263-CHRONOGRAPH-FUERZA-AEREA-DEL-PERU-1974/151489553327?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27673%26meid%3D0292f99ce9724960a9ecff9f81d9b8db%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D271737923570

 

But $65k? For a watch on eBay?

 

Who would do that?

 

--
Pete, Brisbane
============
 

Edited January 20, 2015 by DrRock

[DrRock]

And what do you experts make of this one, for $175,000 ? It appears to have that gaping hole in the coronet... Is it a fake?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAGE-6265-18K-DAYTONA-CHRONOGRAPH-1970-1ST-SERIES-PUSHERS/151467087393?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27673%26meid%3D79a3a5bb649545bd900360e335d35743%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D151489553327&rt=nc

 

Or this one, for $550,000 ?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAGE-18K-6264-PAUL-NEWMAN-DAYTONA-CHRONOGRAPH-1968/151480541964?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27673%26meid%3D0ff125c9c63f433a8e386c82b260bdc2%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D151467087393&rt=nc

[jaycey]

Dr, you raise an interesting point there.

 

Those watches are being sold by Robert Maron, a highly respected watch dealer.

But look what happened here http://www.forbes.com/sites/arieladams/2014/03/20/is-john-mayers-over-650000-lawsuit-a-reason-to-avoid-buying-vintage-watches/

 

I read about this on the replica watch forums and apparently the watches were as far as I can tell, authentic but had rare, fake dials installed. Like the Paul Newman issues.

The dials were so good though that there is/was? an ongoing debate on whether they are fake or real. I don't think even Rolex have confirmed or denied whether they are real?

 

I have since read, on the replica forum that they know who made the "Mayer" dials and there is another dial maker who is even better at his craft than that maker.

 

Scary if you are in the market for such a rare piece!

Edited January 20, 2015 by jaycey

[Geo]

That article certainly made interesting reading Jaycey!

[DrRock]

Thanks for that Jaycey - very interesting article, and it implies that Maron may not be as reputable as claimed.

 

And given your obviously high level of knowledge on these things, it must put you in the category of "a handful of people around the world who can tell a real from an “almost real” vintage Rolex watches." :cool:

Looking at some of those going for ridiculous prices on eBay, I have often wondered - and after reading your posts am now even more skeptical - about fakes being passed off as the real thing.

 

My only other comment, as a quack who plays the guitar (hence my nick) - I think I've been concentrating on the wrong one of that pair, if John Mayer can afford to pay over $5 million just on watches!!!

 

--
Pete, Brisbane
============
 

Edited January 20, 2015 by DrRock

[jaycey]

As has been said above, most sane people if they are in the market for one of these watches, wouldn't be looking on eBay. It's people who think they may get lucky and find a unsuspecting seller who lists a watch 'under the radar' and make a mint on it. Unfortunately these are the scammers biggest prey IMO.

 

All the information & knowledge I have gained is through the replica forums, the guys on there are the true experts. From what I have read they have an uncanny knowledge of the tiniest details of the sometimes unique models, even prototypes. Whatever people think of them they are true experts in their field and sometimes eclipse the knowledge of the self confessed experts on the genuine watch forums.

I have only touched the tip of the iceberg as far as vintage Rolex knowledge is concerned, there is, as per the 'Mayer' Rolex's a whole upper level of fake out there.

Luckily for most of us we will never be in a position to actually own one so we are safe, Fascinating if somewhat shady business ;)

[bobm12]

Nice article jaycey! Thank you for posting and the eye opener!

[Don]

If you guys haven't seen it, check out @facewatchbusta, "The Horological Batman" on Instagram. It's both hilarious and informative.