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12 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Just a comment, and a bit OT.

I'm a hobbyist and I put my heart and soul into every watch I service and repair (any watch takes me at least a day), and I often marvel over the - in my honest opinion - low prices that professional watch repairers charge for their work. How can they survive!?

Professionals have a huge amount of experience, an absolutely dedicated work space, a lot of specialist equipment, often a decent stock of parts, and much more practice under their belt compared to most hobbyists. The result is that they are able to deal with much more than one watch in a day. For a standard manual wind watch with date for instance you could be looking at as little as 1.5 hours of bench time to strip, inspect, reassemble, and lubricate, provided the inspection doesn't throw up any problems. While one watch is in the cleaner the next is being stripped. So in a 7.5 hour day you could be servicing up to 5 watches provided they just require a basic service.

Watch Guy charges £150 for a basic service, so that would be £750 per day, or £3750 for a 5 day week, or £180,000 for a 48 week year (4 weeks holiday).

I could survive on that!!!!

Obviously this is an entirely unrealistic example, and you have to cover all of your costs and overheads out of that money, but even at only 2 watches a day you're looking at £72k.

It comes down to being properly set up, treating it as a job and not a hobby, and of course, having a big enough customer base to bring in the work.

That being said a lot of the pros have a waiting list.

 

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1 hour ago, Marc said:

Professionals have a huge amount of experience, an absolutely dedicated work space, a lot of specialist equipment, often a decent stock of parts, and much more practice under their belt compared to most hobbyists. The result is that they are able to deal with much more than one watch in a day. For a standard manual wind watch with date for instance you could be looking at as little as 1.5 hours of bench time to strip, inspect, reassemble, and lubricate, provided the inspection doesn't throw up any problems. While one watch is in the cleaner the next is being stripped. So in a 7.5 hour day you could be servicing up to 5 watches provided they just require a basic service.

Watch Guy charges £150 for a basic service, so that would be £750 per day, or £3750 for a 5 day week, or £180,000 for a 48 week year (4 weeks holiday).

I could survive on that!!!!

Obviously this is an entirely unrealistic example, and you have to cover all of your costs and overheads out of that money, but even at only 2 watches a day you're looking at £72k.

It comes down to being properly set up, treating it as a job and not a hobby, and of course, having a big enough customer base to bring in the work.

That being said a lot of the pros have a waiting list.

 

OK, so I've changed my mind! I now marvel at how anyone can develop such skill that they can service five watches in a day, rather than 1 watch in five days (like "some" hobbyist watch repairers) :lol:

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Not saying it's not possible to do a manual wind watch in 1.5 hours (but it would be pushing it to do it right), but on that watch there is also uncasing, cleaning and possibly polishing the case, maybe a crystal to change, timing in 6 positions, either the face time or email time with the customer, checking it a couple days later, maybe adjust, get the case out from the safe and recase, retest, box it, or contact the customer...

 

In a service center where someone does the case work, the emails/calls, changes the solutions in the cleaning machine, orders the oil and pithwood and toilet paper, and no work needed other than cleaning and a little hit on the regulator, yes, perhaps 1.5 hours. To do 5 in a day you could take a 15 minute lunch break and one more 15 minute break if you don't have to do anything else other than sit at the bench. But then you wouldn't get 150 per watch....;).

 

I find that out of say 10 watches, I end up spending time adjusting the escapement on at least 3, dynamic poise on several as well, there's always chasing down parts from suppliers, there's always surprises. I remembering calculating how much money I could make when I was in school and was like "why isn't everyone doing this, it like free money!!". Then I started buying tools....

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Hi  In my youth I used to repair office machines, adding machines calculators and accounting machines  The accounting machines had hundreds of bits, levers and many springs of different types The first one I rebuild took 48hrs of painstaking work, In the end I could do one in 12hs, It all comes down to familiarisation and how often you work on them. So I guess a watchmaker working regluar  on watches his time would decrease accordingly, Five a day, Just a cleaning operation, cleaning with repairs would take longer depending how profficient he was. 

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4 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Not saying it's not possible to do a manual wind watch in 1.5 hours (but it would be pushing it to do it right), but on that watch there is also uncasing, cleaning and possibly polishing the case, maybe a crystal to change, timing in 6 positions, either the face time or email time with the customer, checking it a couple days later, maybe adjust, get the case out from the safe and recase, retest, box it, or contact the customer...

 

In a service center where someone does the case work, the emails/calls, changes the solutions in the cleaning machine, orders the oil and pithwood and toilet paper, and no work needed other than cleaning and a little hit on the regulator, yes, perhaps 1.5 hours. To do 5 in a day you could take a 15 minute lunch break and one more 15 minute break if you don't have to do anything else other than sit at the bench. But then you wouldn't get 150 per watch....;).

 

I find that out of say 10 watches, I end up spending time adjusting the escapement on at least 3, dynamic poise on several as well, there's always chasing down parts from suppliers, there's always surprises. I remembering calculating how much money I could make when I was in school and was like "why isn't everyone doing this, it like free money!!". Then I started buying tools....

OK, so even the magical world of watch servicing and repairing that we love so dearly is caught up by reality "once in a while"!? Dang! Who would have thought!? :lol:

Add to all the things you mention taxes to be paid and overhead in the form of tools, consumables, parts, premises, etc., etc. perhaps $1000 for a complete fix and service of a vintage 1940s Phigied Monopusher with Angelus Caliber 210 is that bad after all!? Perhaps even a bit of a bargain?

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Like I said,

3 hours ago, Marc said:

Obviously this is an entirely unrealistic example, and you have to cover all of your costs and overheads out of that money, but even at only 2 watches a day you're looking at £72k.

The idea that 5 a day is a realistic target is fanciful in the extreme and was really to illustrate the principal that volume throughput results in the turnover racking up quite quiikly.

The real point that I was trying to make, maybe not too successfully, was that having a properly equiped, totally dedicated set up, coupled with treating it as a job rather than a hobby, makes a big difference to throughput.

I'm an amateur. My work space also doubles as an office for the day job, as well as a workshop for all the other tinkering that I like to indulge in. As a result it is a compromise which means that it's not as efficient a watchmaking work space as it could be. I also treat my hobby as a hobby. I do it when I feel like it, I take a lot of pictures (far more than just reassembly reference pics), I get distracted by other stuff going on in the house, etc.....   I would never make it as a pro.

That being said, with the proper set up and approach, there must be enough money in it for the pros to survive, else there wouldn't be any pros left.

 

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I'm going to skip over what I think of the fantasy 1.5 hours to service a watch otherwise you're going to get several paragraphs of the stupidity of that. It only works in a theoretical situation of everything absolutely perfect and unfortunately this is watch repair other than a modern service center that just isn't going to happen.  Then even a modern service center with specialized equipment conceivably several people work on that watch. Somebody will do the casing work polishing the case of that's needed casing up to verify that everything is waterproof it depends on the shop a watchmaker might do a lot of that but a lot of time several people involved.

So here's a link below if you're looking for watchmaker. There is some minor problems though with their search? So the search text is based on the content found associated with each person. This means when you search for a chronograph for instance the list is tiny because people didn't list that they would do chronographs even though I know there's people that are not on the chronograph list that will do chronographs. Then you have to click on each name to find their website link at the bottom of the description but still you end up with a list of watch repair people. Then to be on this list you have to be a member of this Association which means a lot of watchmakers won't be on the list because they choose not to be a member of this Association. But still as a whole bunch of names some of them have websites very just be nice if they list the websites with the name seat enough to click on every single name and if there text descriptions were little bit better that would be helpful.

 

https://awci.memberclicks.net/find-a-professional

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10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I'm going to skip over what I think of the fantasy 1.5 hours to service a watch otherwise you're going to get several paragraphs of the stupidity of that.

I don't think what Master nickelsilver wrote is stupid at all. He made clear that is not a truly reasonable number, as well as listing some of the other tasks and overhead involved.
And as watchweasol mentioned, repeated work on the same device makes one faster and better. Personally I can service a Seiko 7S/4R/6R mov't in 2 hours without too much rushing, but taking no breaks either.

 

  • Fully strip with cleanable parts straight into the jar 15 mins
  • Move parts to rinsing,  in the meanwhile clean and prepare bench and tools, 10 mins
  • Keyless 10 mins
  • Train / main bridge 20 mins
  • Pallet fork and balance 15 mins
  • Balance jewels 10 mins
  • Initial test and regulation 5 mins
  • Addt.l keyless  parts 6R15 only, 5 mins
  • Calendar works 15 mins
  • Add.t winding parts, 6R15 only, 15 mins

Total 120 mins. I don't think the 2824 is much different. Truth is casing, rechecking, correcting, etc can take one hour when lucky.

If I had to work to feed family I could do three of these per day. But I would become a stressed "professional" with no skills beside the daily routine. No thanks. 

 

 

 


 

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8 hours ago, jdm said:

I don't think what Master nickelsilver wrote is stupid at all. He made clear that is not a truly reasonable number, as well as listing some of the other tasks and overhead involved.

If you feel that my answer was inappropriate I apologize obviously I have zero idea how professional watch shops work.

 

22 hours ago, Marc said:

So in a 7.5 hour day you could be servicing up to 5 watches provided they just require a basic service.

Watch Guy charges £150 for a basic service, so that would be £750 per day, or £3750 for a 5 day week, or £180,000 for a 48 week year (4 weeks holiday).

 Notice that everyone is making assumptions? So the assumption skips over steps and assumes basic watch basic servicing zero parts zero problems only cleaning and as stated above not even professional cleaning because you skipped some steps. Then the money's the biggest assumption of all as a professional you would be paying rent even if you're operating out of your house. The tools and equipment and supplies all have to be paid for cost of cleaning fluid disposal of cleaning fluid and all other normal business expenses. In order to do that servicing the watch somehow has to get to your hands conceivably there's another person involved or if it's a really big shop several people. With several people involved yes watchmakers can do watches fast because a lot of tasks are offloaded to other people.

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi there. Could someone please recommend a watch repairer that could possibly service/lubricate/clean my Swiss Emporor Deluxe 21 Jewels watch. 

The stem seems a little stiff at times when setting the watch, and the second hand stops every now and then then starts ticking again. It's working fine now, but then just randomly stops. The date function changes no problem, but the day function won't change over. It can be set but then doesn't advance.I'm based here in the the UK. 

Thanks

Paul

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I suggest you go to the B H I site and click on Find a Repairer and download the watch repairers list. Find one nearest to you. These are reputable people who can handle all types of repairs. Make sure the repairs are carried out on their premises and that you get a guarantee if the watch has a complete overhaul, it should be 1 year. Ask for an estimate.

Here is the B H I link.    https://bhi.co.uk/

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27 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Not at those stupid prices. 

You think O.N. Atelier prices are excessive? I'd say they are fairly normal

Inspection (See below)     £35
Movement Service (Manual Wind)     From £159
Movement Service  (Automatic)    From £179
Movement Service (Quartz)    From £129
Movement Service Chronograph Manual (e.g. Valjoux 7733)    From £249
Movement Service Chronograph Automatic (e.g. Valjoux 7750)    From £295

Compare to watchguy.co.uk:

inspection charge    £ 30
manual wind, with or without date    £ 150
Manual wind, not shock protected    £ 160
automatic, with or without date    £ 170
complex automatic with or without date, e.g. Rolex, Omega Co-Axial, etc.    £ 200
manual wind chronograph with or without date, with hour recorder    £ 270
automatic chronograph with or without date    £ 300

 

That even before looking at the official service center prices.

 

 

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Hi  I have to agree with jdm on that fact, during my trawls of the net for information I Often peruse the prices charged by firms or individual watchmakers and given the fact that O.N.Atelier spent three years training and investing in tools etc I think his prices are about the average. That does not mean to say that you can not get a job done by a very competent watch maker apprenticed trained within a family firm at a very fair price. Its a case of research, making your mind up on how much you are prepared to spend.  If one was to got to the Official service center or Manufacturer you could add at least a third to those prices may be more.

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50 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I'm very out of touch with modern prices. Back in my days 1970's & 80's I would charge around £30 for overhaul of an auto Rolex plus parts. It would take be around 50 minutes to complete the task.  I still made a  good living. 

    right you are !   "in the good old days",  i would do a valve job on a 1950  Chev. for 20 bucks.  vin

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On 2/11/2020 at 1:56 PM, oldhippy said:

I'm very out of touch with modern prices. Back in my days 1970's & 80's I would charge around £30 for overhaul of an auto Rolex plus parts. It would take be around 50 minutes to complete the task.  I still made a  good living. 


 

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