My first ever watch restore project. Junghans pocket watch

[HaydenE]

Hello everyone, hope you’re doing well. After swapping out a movement in a citizen automatic watch I’ve always wanted to actually tear down and restore something. So I started looking at pocket watches due to their bigger size and simplicity. My current skill level is only interest and have swapped out a movement before, changed some hands, and the case. So basically little to none.  

 

i found this Junghans pocket watch on eBay for cheap cheap. It winds and the balance wheel does move when messed with but other than that there’s no life. So I’m going to tear it down and clean it, seeing if I can catch any damage. This watch seems relatively unique for a junghans (or maybe a knock off) because I don’t see many others where the 3 o clock position sits near the crown. 
 

I’ll be keeping this thread updated as I make progress. 

[jdm]

If "it winds" then chances are the mainspring is broken, and you're feeling just the resistance  of the click spring. Why? Because with a faulty escape/train, you would have found the barrel fully wound already. If that's the case, you may have a broken balance staff perhaps? One can tell without even removing anything, as the balance wheel doesn't stay well positioned when slightly touched.

Or it could have just over-banked, again that's easy to tell as the balance will move and go back in one direction, but not in the other.

Whatever the reason I hope you can enjoy a satisfying 1st mov't repair/service 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by jdm

[HaydenE]

That’s my plan of attack, I’m not sure what the standard procedure of inspection and repair is but I was thinking of trying to pin point a fault first then tearing it down for a cleaning. 
 

I think I’ll start at the main spring and seeing what it looks like, then go down the wheel train to the hair spring. 

[HaydenE]

I must be a natural at this!! Got it fixed already.

 

Joking, but I let down the main spring again. Swung the balance wheel back and forth a few times, noticed that it just started engaging the pallet fork for the first time. Winded it up and it’s alive again!

 

well now that I know I got a working pocket watch to practice on I think I’ll use this opportunity for my first service and clean. I’m going to use a camera to film the tear down and take lots of pictures. That way I can re-trace my steps 

[HaydenE]

I’m not sure if this is considered damage but I found a few things. Underneath the balance bridge there was big chunks of crud and also the little screw that goes from the balance bridge into the side of the wheel wasn’t screwed in at all.

and also the hair spring seems bent

[Deggsie]

Hi. The hairspring is supposed to be like that. Google breguet overcook hairspring. Please don’t try to straighten it - it look great!


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[Deggsie]

Oops. I did mean to say ‘Breguet over-coil hairspring’. Apologies, auto spell correct cut in and I didn’t notice.


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[HaydenE]

1 hour ago, Deggsie said:

Oops. I did mean to say ‘Breguet over-coil hairspring’. Apologies, auto spell correct cut in and I didn’t notice.


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Great to know! Thank you!!

 

Now I got most of it taken apart other than the main spring bridge, due to not having the right size screw drivers. But my new set should be here tomorrow.

In the mean time I’m thinking of cleaning what I have know. I was thinking of following a video by bunn special about how he cleans pocket watches. I was thinking of using sharpened tooth picks for the jewels and lighter fluid to clean the parts, including the balance assembly.

ill be ordering peg wood and one dip for my next build I think. 

[HaydenE]

We’ll hit my first big snag. I’m not sure what the right name is for this gear but it’s being a big pain. I have a flat head that fits perfectly in it and still the screw driver pops out causing the screw head to warp. Any tricks to this?

Also I got a new organizer and put all screws and respective pieces together. Earlier with only two small containers I was getting incredibly confused for what screw goes where. Works great

Edited February 10, 2020 by HaydenE

[HaydenE]

Welp just sorta figured out that’s either not suppose to come off or I’m not doing it right. But anyways the bridge came off with that gear, so I moved on to cleaning everything. I followed this blogs advice. Doing one container a degreaser then two hits of lighter fluid and running the parts with paint brushes. Let’s see if I didn’t make a mistake of following all of the internet’s advice 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchtoolkit.co.uk/2017/02/27/cleaning-a-watch-movement/amp/

[MIKED19551]

Hi, did you try turning the screw in the opposite direction. Some watches have that particular screw left threaded to avoid loosening when winding.

[Piff]

It looks like someone has had a go at that screw with a screwdriver that is too thin/small. The best screwdriver for a screw is one that is as close (in width) to the screw's diameter without being wider, and ground such that when in the slot there no "slop" to speak of. 

Regards.

[HaydenE]

I think that’s where I messed up, my screw drivers handle was really small and I don’t think I could get enough torque on it. I just left it in when I cleaned everything else, I’ll have to find or make a screw driver that’ll work for it.

 

one question (and potential problem) I came up with when putting the wheel chain bridge (is that what it’s called?) back together I noticed one of the wheels would stick out through the plate. I’m not sure if that’s on purpose or a broken jewel because it was like that when I first got it. Maybe that was the particular problem causing it to fail. 
 

it’s the cog in the middle of the three.

 

Ahhh I think that’s actually where the second hand went to on the other side through the dial. The process of learning in action haha

Edited February 10, 2020 by HaydenE

[HaydenE]

Well I gone messed up now. I thought I lined up the jewels on the bridge perfectly. Everything moved very easily after being snug tight. After I winded it up to test it one of the jewels got destroyed from one of the cogs. 
 

im not sure if it’s because I didn’t have the escapement on to control it or I didn’t line it up perfectly. I’m thinking I didn’t have it lined up and it bored through the jewel 

Edited February 10, 2020 by HaydenE

[Jon]

The trick is, whilst the pallet fork is still out of the movement, is to turn the barrel slightly so all the wheels move freely, as you tighten down the bridge screws, making sure the pivots are in each jewel hole first. They will all move really freely and keep spinning even when you have stopped spinning the barrel, rather than just moving, as one of the pivots may be in the bottom jewel, but not in the top, which looks like that's what may have happened to your third wheel pivot.

A x 10 loupe is helpful to really see the pivots are in place before tightening down the train bridge.

We've all done this mistake when starting out, that's how we learn

[HaydenE]

So just to check, what would be the best way to get the barrel to move? Actually wind it or use a tooth pick or peg wood to move it?

Ill have to invest in a more powerful eye loop. I have a 3.5x set of jeweler goggles right now but I’ll look into that. What’s the right way to check? Looking through the top of the jewel to see if it’s set in?

i think this was definitely the hardest part of putting it back together. I’ll have to find some more resources about it. 
 

Also any tips/info on lining up jewels from anybody is appreciated 

[HaydenE]

Also last question right now if anyone wants to chime in. 
 

I’ve been looking at ways to replace this jewel since I can’t find any bridges for sell (or I might just buy a donor watch) 

I’m not sure how to find the right press that’ll work, I’ve found a few presses for sell for around 50-60$ and I think it would be a good investment since it seems like broken jewels are a common repair 

[Jon]

10 hours ago, HaydenE said:

So just to check, what would be the best way to get the barrel to move? Actually wind it or use a tooth pick or peg wood to move it?

Ill have to invest in a more powerful eye loop. I have a 3.5x set of jeweler goggles right now but I’ll look into that. What’s the right way to check? Looking through the top of the jewel to see if it’s set in?

i think this was definitely the hardest part of putting it back together. I’ll have to find some more resources about it. 
 

Also any tips/info on lining up jewels from anybody is appreciated 

10 hours ago, HaydenE said:

Also last question right now if anyone wants to chime in. 
 

I’ve been looking at ways to replace this jewel since I can’t find any bridges for sell (or I might just buy a donor watch) 

I’m not sure how to find the right press that’ll work, I’ve found a few presses for sell for around 50-60$ and I think it would be a good investment since it seems like broken jewels are a common repair 

Yes, with a sharpened piece of pegwood (toothpick) gently turn the barrel. Yes, look through the top of each jewel to see the pivot is in place properly. Some start by using optivisors like you have, but they are limited by the magnification they go up to.

I would stick to getting a donor watch for now, for a replacement bridge, as replacing jewels is a bit more work than you are probably ready for yet (no disrespect intended). A descent jewelling tool will set you back probably a two to three hundred quid, if it has a full set of pushers and reamers. Like this one on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchmakers-SEITZ-jewelling-tool-press-set-for-friction-jewels-Complete-EXTRA/402066112828?hash=item5d9d02013c:g:wgUAAOSwCgleLtQy

They are different to staking tools, although some staking tools will have attachments that convert them to a jewelling tool.

 

[HaydenE]

Great great advice thank you again. I saw late last night the expenses of the jeweling tools and figured that’ll be a little later investment.

 

So I ordered a donor watch after reading your reply, I’ll also order a better loupe for round two. Again thank you a million for all the advice 

[HaydenE]

Update: Got a donor Junghans pocket watch and also some more tools recommended by Deggsie. Going to be trying to rebuild this pocket watch soon.

Also I’ve recently been able to mess around with a cheap Timex I bought. I can see why there’s not much demand to restore these, but it was still fun to see how it all worked. The watch was sticking due to a lot of rust and I followed marks watch repair Breitling video where he used baking soda to scrub the rust off. Did the best I could and now it runs, just need to regulate it now 

[HaydenE]

Well got the wheels all lined up much much easier with the help of using a more powerful loupe, and used a new air blower to test them and they spin great now. Unfortunately when I went to put the balance wheel assembly back on I noticed the hair spring has become bent very badly in many directions from my carelessness while handling/cleaning it. 
 

I tried following marks YouTube videos of straightening hair springs and did an okay job. It didn’t look perfect but everything was spaced out and lined up okay. Then when trying to re install the spring onto the balance wheel I used a dial hand installer punch since it’s the closest thing I got. This took out the pivot and broke it off. 
 

When I wait to get another part I got some new reading material, the watch repair manual. Also got about 8 new pocket watches to play with I got from an eBay lot

[Graziano]

Hi there, No part of your experience is wasted. Everything you've experienced so far is part of what you were meant to learn, keep on keeping on. 

[AndyHull]

3 hours ago, HaydenE said:

Also got about 8 new pocket watches to play with I got from an eBay lot

I'm pretty confident you will get some of those going. Shame about the pivot. There is a pretty good chance you can source a replacement balance staff though, or even a complete balance.

https://www.balancestaffs.com/product.php

 

[HaydenE]

Th is guys I appreciate the motivation and confidence. Currently there’s two things now that I need a little help with that I’m confused about if anyone can.

What tool do I need to re install balance wheels so I don’t make the same mistake?

I’m already tired of using lighter fluid to clean everything, I’m interested in buying a budget ultrasonic cleaner. What should I look for? What cleaning fluids should I use with it? And finally, can I put the balance assembly in the ultra sonic cleaner and what fluid should I use for shellac parts?

 

Appreciate all the info and support guys 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, HaydenE said:

What cleaning fluids should I use with it? And finally, can I put the balance assembly in the ultra sonic cleaner and what fluid should I use for shellac parts?

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