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Rolex 116610LN randomly stops


CLB521

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Hi everybody.  I have a Rolex Submariner 116610LN I purchased one year ago from a grey market dealer brand new.  The watch has been a daily wearer for most of the year only rotating it out with a few other watches.

In December 2019, the watch was randomly stopping.  The watch had sufficient power reserve on the main spring.  One morning the watch was on my watch winder when I went to put it on it was completely stopped.  I picked it up, gave it a few winds, it would tick a few seconds and then stop.  I first reached out to Rolex Service Center and after a few discussions and emails, they told me they would not honor the warranty because my warranty card was completely filled out.  I reached out to my grey market seller and he immediately offered to help me get the watch repaired since Rolex would not help me.  I packaged up the watch and sent it to him.  Upon inspection from his watch repair person, they discovered the balance staff was bent and said this was the cause of the watch stoppage.  He promptly replaced the balance staff and shipped me back my watch.  I thanked him endlessly for the help and wore my watch again.

A few weeks ago, I took my watch off my winder to discover that again, it had stopped running.  I wound it, gave it a slight shake with no luck of it running.  I called my grey dealer up again and he immediately sent me a return label so he could have it looked at.  When he received it he said the watch was running perfectly.  I couldn't believe what I was hearing.  He held on to it over the weekend and for an additional 3 days and said everything was running smoothly.  No stopping and with perfect timing.  He sent me back the watch and when I opened the package I noticed that it was not running.  Based on the time it stopped it looked like it stopped just before I opened the package.  This time I setup my GoPro and made a video of the watch stopped, winding it 40 times and giving the watch a few light shakes and turns to show that the watch did not run.  After a few hours I picked up the watch and after moving it around it started to run again and it has continued to run with no problems for the last 3 days.

I talked to the seller and I told him that at this point I want to hold on to the watch and see if this continues to happen and only send it back once it has stopped working completely.

My question to all of you is has anyone ever seen or experienced this type of behavior before from a watch?  My initial thought was that a gear was shifting out of alignment and making the watch stop only to start up gain after it has been bumped back in place.

Any advice or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time.  

 

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A spec of dirt can do this.

So can fault in fork, pallets and escape teeth or anywhere in escapement mech for that matter.

Hard to imagine a movement run for day with a pivot sliding in and out of of place. specially in static position, on bench etc.

 

 

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Hi  You mention several times a Grey dealer which brings to mind some one dealing in non genuine watches. As Nucejoe remarked anything could be the cause, most likely a speck of dirt a hair etc which would explain the random stoppages.  Rolex would not honor the G'tee because the card was filled out?. was it incorrect or may be a non genuine card or serial number or somthing else. THE ONLY WAY OF PROVING IT's Authenticity is to take it to a watchmaker who deals in Rolex and have him have a look to confirm its a genuine Rolex and see if he can answer the question why Rolex refused the warranty.

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Hi Further research, the number 116610LN appears to be genuine and is from 2011 to 2020.     Rolex submariner. 

 It should have a 3135  31jewel movement and a 904L bracelet.  A guide line price depends on the date of production   euro 8,000 to  euro 10,000 approx.

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A spec of dirt can do this.
So can fault in fork, pallets and escape teeth or anywhere in escapement mech for that matter.
Hard to imagine a movement run for day with a pivot sliding in and out of of place. specially in static position, on bench etc.
 
 

I totally agree. I had a watch that had a screw loose in the movement and it would wonder around and stop the watch randomly. Also a piece of dirt. I also have had some dirt in one of the pinions.


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3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  You mention several times a Grey dealer which brings to mind some one dealing in non genuine watches. 

That's an incorrect assumption. Grey market is nothing else than dealers with big money buying directly from manufacturer or an associated official dealer. Of course the manufacturer will swear that this is impossible, but in Switzerland as in other places "pecunia non olet". It helps in somehow redressing the market but can can get an owner willing to save few hundreds or thousands in trouble as in this case.

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3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  You mention several times a Grey dealer which brings to mind some one dealing in non genuine watches. As Nucejoe remarked anything could be the cause, most likely a speck of dirt a hair etc which would explain the random stoppages.  Rolex would not honor the G'tee because the card was filled out?. was it incorrect or may be a non genuine card or serial number or somthing else. THE ONLY WAY OF PROVING IT's Authenticity is to take it to a watchmaker who deals in Rolex and have him have a look to confirm its a genuine Rolex and see if he can answer the question why Rolex refused the warranty.

     how about the "black  market" ?  some time ago.  the rolex fakes were  easy to spot . i don't think omegas were faked then.  vin 

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The grey market dealer I bought the watch from is a seller from the Rolex Forum.  He is one of the more reputable sellers on the forum so I doubt very much he would sell a fake.  Also he is willing to get this fixed for me even though RSC is not honoring the warranty.

The watch is a new submariner with black dial.

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11 hours ago, CLB521 said:

After a few hours I picked up the watch and after moving it around it started to run again and it has continued to run with no problems for the last 3 days.

Do you have a chance of bringing it to a friendly watchmaker and take a picture of the timegrapher screen or try an equivalent application (requires a good microphone) and take a screenshot.

In this forum we can't say much about warranties etc,  but given a small bit of evidence as above would at least enable an informed technical comment.

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27 minutes ago, jdm said:

Do you have a chance of bringing it to a friendly watchmaker and take a picture of the timegrapher screen or try an equivalent application (requires a good microphone) and take a screenshot.

In this forum we can't say much about warranties etc,  but given a small bit of evidence as above would at least enable an informed technical comment.

I need to find the time to take it to a watch repair guy around me.  It stopped again on me this morning for about 20 minutes before it started up again.  There is a guy that gets some good review for watch repair I will try to stop by and ask.

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Hi That's a fair point , Not knowing whence it was purchased and from whom. If he is an official re seller I am somewhat at a loss as to the attitude of Rolex.  Not being an officiado of "the grey market" or its operation, one can only summarise.  Fair play to the seller who repaired the watch and returned it and is honoring his side of the bargin and for keeping open a channel of communication regarding the problem.

I would second jdm's idea of finding a friendly watchmaker for at the very least a second opinion.     All the best

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Watches can randomly stop for many reasons, but I agree with the suggestions here that for a newer watch, my first guess would be that something is jamming / fouling it.

The easiest way to diagnose one of these faults is when it is currently faulty. After inspection for anything obvious, the watchmaker would inspect freedom of movement in the balance, and then in the gear train.

How the hell did you manage to bend a balance pivot? These watches have antishock jewel settings......

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8 hours ago, Redwood said:

Does the watch stop at the same, I had this with a watch when the calendar was about to change  date

The watch has stopped about 8 at night and a few time between 7-8 in the morning.  Today it stopped at 7:40 in the morning and again around 9:00.

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2 hours ago, rodabod said:

Watches can randomly stop for many reasons, but I agree with the suggestions here that for a newer watch, my first guess would be that something is jamming / fouling it.

The easiest way to diagnose one of these faults is when it is currently faulty. After inspection for anything obvious, the watchmaker would inspect freedom of movement in the balance, and then in the gear train.

How the hell did you manage to bend a balance pivot? These watches have antishock jewel settings......

I was shocked to hear the balance staff was bent.  I still have no idea how that could have happened.  I baby my watches.  I do even place them on hard surfaces to make sure the clasps get scratched.  I dont do any sports and I have desk job from my house and when the watch isnt worn it sits in a watch winder. so I have no idea.

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I took it to a local watch shop today.  Before I left the house the watch was stopped but it started up again before I got there.  The repair man said the watch was timed at 2 lines and got it back to 1 line.  I assume he was talking about the amplitude.  He thinks the oils inside are dried out causing the issue.  He also de-magnitized it just in case that was the issue.  Its been running fine since then so we will see.

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2 hours ago, CLB521 said:

I took it to a local watch shop today.  Before I left the house the watch was stopped but it started up again before I got there.  The repair man said the watch was timed at 2 lines and got it back to 1 line.  I assume he was talking about the amplitude.  He thinks the oils inside are dried out causing the issue.  He also de-magnitized it just in case that was the issue.  Its been running fine since then so we will see.

The 'two lines, one line' bit sounds like a reference to beat error read out on a Timegrapher to me......:wacko:

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2 hours ago, CLB521 said:

I was shocked to hear the balance staff was bent.  I still have no idea how that could have happened.  I baby my watches.  I do even place them on hard surfaces to make sure the clasps get scratched.  I dont do any sports and I have desk job from my house and when the watch isnt worn it sits in a watch winder. so I have no idea.

I simply don't believe that the balance staff could have been bent. It's really not easy for that to happen on an antishock watch. Perhaps the watchmaker's assessment was lost in translation.

The oil could be dry, but unlikely to cause it to suddenly to stop if it is normally running ok. Modern oils should be ok for years before requiring replacement.

Check if it always stops between 8 and 9.... That could be a very important clue.

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Any watchmaker competant enough to work on Rolex would start with the fork, either replacement if he got one, or check this under high magnification and if to no avail move on to the escape wheel. 

Shows most symptoms of a misaligned pallet. Or faulty guard pin.

 

Edited by Nucejoe
Agree , date jumper too, stops when gets to change date
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3 hours ago, CLB521 said:

He thinks the oils inside are dried out causing the issue.

As mentioned, oils can't dry out on a 1 year old watch. And I agree that's unlikelythat the balance staff has been replaced. You should have took a picture of the timegrapher  screen for us to see, otherwise we would be just guessing diagnosis, that's very unprofessional. What I can tell you if the watch stopped repeatedly before, it will stop again.

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Hi CLB

This must be very frustrating for you seeing as you 'Baby' your watches and to have a bent balance staff, not to mention random stopping. I have to agree with the comments by fellow posters that you really should get an experienced watch repairer to check this out. The random stopping could well be loose material fouling the escapement or train or even a broken spring that allows a component to move when the watch is in a particular orientation. The broken staff would suggest a high impact at some time.

I have a question: Is it possible that the the watch could have been subjected to extraordinary high magnetism say from Neodymium magnets? I'd still be ineterested in a close up pic of the watch crystal Rolex crown at 6 o'clock.

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Thanks guys for all of the feedback.

To answer your questions, I was shocked to hear that the balance staff was bent.  I This watch is not mis-treated at all.  

The local watch repairmen suggesting the oils dried out doesn't sound right and I think he was giving a vague answer since he knew we wasn't going to work on the watch and I told him he I was working with the sellers watch repair person.  There is another watch repair shop thats further away but they said they have a huge back log in repairs.

The watch should not have been magnetized but the watch repair man did de-magnetize it just in case.

My suspicion is the watch has a loose gear or piece of dirt thats making it stop at random.  

I'm not able to get a clear picture of the crystal at the 6 oclock position but if your wondering about the crown etching it is there.

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Thanks CLB. As I do like Rolex watches although I prefer Omega coaxial, very frustrating to have a bent balance staff on such a classic watch. Did you see the original bent staff? Was it replaced?  If so the repairer should have shown you the bent one. Did you see it?

The oils drying out would take quite some time as the oils used are of a very high quality. How old is the the watch?

When I viewed Marks strip down of the Rolex GMT master Mark pointed out that the movement had been over oiled. This could be another possible cause for the inetermittent stopping.

I hope you get this sorted. Please keep us posted on developments.

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