Rolex Tudor ETA 2484 Servicing

[Deggsie]

Super duper. Looks really nice. I would love a Tudor prince. They have much more character than Rolex, imho


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[tritto]

Use of Epilame Fixodrop on bearing of reversers in self winder module has previiously  been brought up.
This thread  gives a good chance to cover in detail, the application of the oil and the resulting improvement in power reserve. 
 

Sorry to necro and old thread, but I wonder if you can summarise the issue with the reversing wheels or direct me to an appropriate thread.
I have a Tudor Sub with a 2484 movement. It has an issue where the rotor will spin as you hand wind the watch. My watchmaker serviced the watch several years ago and the issue persisted (it is most likely to be evident when the mainspring is fully unwound, once there is some tension the issue goes away). It has been back with him some time and he still hasn't been able to resolve issues generally with the auto framework.
I'm trying to gather ideas and I think I've previously read that oiling if the reversing wheels may cause issues.
Thanks.


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[Marc]

I believe that the base calibre for this is the ETA 2452. Helicoptering of the rotor as you hand wind ETA auto movements is a symptom of sticky reversing wheels.

The official ETA requirement used to be to replace the wheels during servicing, cleaning and re-lubricating was frowned upon because they were very sensitive to over lubrication which simply caused the problem to recur. However, people found ways to apply only a microscopic film of oil by mixing a light oil like 9010 with a volatile carrier like naphtha at a ratio of about 1:25 and then just dunking the wheels in it after cleaning. As the carrier evaporated it left a microscopic film of 9010 behind. This has been my standard approach to oiling ETA reversers on my own watches for some time and it has resolved helicoptering rotors without any other issues as a result, but I know that it is a practise that has been frowned upon in the past.

However, not wishing to miss out on a marketing opportunity, ETA has now come up with a product called Lubeta V105, which is a lubricant dissolved in a volatile carrier (sounds familiar) which you just dunk the cleaned wheels in and then allow to dry, so I guess that it's no longer considered bad practise. I don't know how the lubricant element differs from 9010 although I believe that it's a more waxy affair.

If however the reversers are just worn out then no amount of lubrication, careful or otherwise will solve the problem and replacement reverser wheels is the route to go.

[Nucejoe]

@HSL demonstrated how he disassemble, clean and lubes reversers. I am looking for his post, hopeful to find it and will inform you.

Considering your watch is a Tudor, I personally prefer and recommend new replacement.

 

[hpekala]

A fairly common problem with the eta 28xx is that reduction wheel hits reverser wheel, in picture you can see scratches.


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[VWatchie]

On 7/14/2020 at 9:14 AM, Nucejoe said:

@HSL demonstrated how he disassemble, clean and lubes reversers. I am looking for his post, hopeful to find it and will inform you.

Any luck finding @HSL's post?

[Nucejoe]

42 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Any luck finding @HSL's post?

Unfortunate not.  Hopefully he dose remember and gives us the link. May take sometime before he visits the forum site though.

[HSL]

51 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Any luck finding @HSL's post?

Depends of which one? I been playing around with the reversers a bit.
The V105 is probably something like Moebius 9010 in an alcohol solution, this makes it easier to just get that small amount of lubricant needed for the small levers inside the reverser.
Nowadays i just put a microscopic dot into the reverser and blow with air so it circulates, the centripental forces will do the deed for you to spread the lubricant around, with this method practice makes perfect.
The most important stage is however asusual to clean the reversers rigidly, when you think their clean, clean again. I use One-Dip solution and epilame.

Just keep in mind to keep track of the small pinions which come loose during the cleaning process.
Here is one quick and dirty PDF.

Reverser.pdf

And live comment from the from lab, "One always need a bunch of setups to try out your theories on"  

Edited July 21, 2020 by HSL

[Nucejoe]

18 minutes ago, HSL said:

Depends of which one? I been playing around with the reversers a bit.
The V105 is probably something like Moebius 9010 in an alcohol solution, this makes it easier to just get that small amount of lubricant needed for the small levers inside the reverser.
Nowadays i just put a microscopic dot into the reverser and blow with air so it circulates, the centripental forces will do the deed for you to spread the lubricant around, with this method practice makes perfect.
The most important stage is however asusual to clean the reversers rigidly, when you think their clean, clean again. I use One-Dip solution and epilame.

Just keep in mind to keep track of the small pinions which come loose during the cleaning process.
Here is one quick and dirty PDF.

Reverser.pdf

And live comment from the from lab, "One always need a bunch of setups to try out your theories on"  

I think it was the solution, you mixed in a jar, soaked the reversers in it after the clean.

[VWatchie]

27 minutes ago, HSL said:

Here is one quick and dirty PDF.

Thanks @HSL, much appreciated! I had no idea that the gears could or should separate from the pinions! Is this true for all (or most) ETA movements or just for this Tudor ETA 2484? Whenever I've cleaned reversers I've just cleaned them like any other parts and then soaked them in Lubeta V105 (with nothing separating). I guess it's been working well enough but I did have some problems with the automatic winding of my ETA 2772 (the one with the plain bearing rotor). I wonder if it could be attributed to the reversers not being cleaned and lubricated well enough. They did spin well enough (as fas as I could assess it) but what do you think?

EDIT: BTW, Bergeon's One-dip has been replaced by something they call B-dip. I wonder if it works the same and would be as appropriate as One-dip for cleaning the reversers!? I would guess so but thought I'd mention it.

Edited July 21, 2020 by VWatchie

[HSL]

A faulty reverser will probably not give that effect on the winding on a 2772, that is a quite robust construction which probably will rotate slow when the barrel wears and breaks a bit more. Nothing to worry about since the winder will surely but slowly wind the spring just by rocking, it doesn't always have to rotate like a mad Viking at midsummer. 

[Nucejoe]

18 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks @HSL, much appreciated! I had no idea that the gears could or should separate from the pinions! Is this true for all (or most) ETA movements or just for this Tudor ETA 2484? Whenever I've cleaned reversers I've just cleaned them like any other parts and then soaked them in Lubeta V105 (with nothing separating). I guess it's been working well enough but I did have some problems with the automatic winding of my ETA 2772 (the one with the plain bearing rotor). I wonder if it could be attributed to the reversers not being cleaned and lubricated well enough. They did spin well enough (as fas as I could assess it) but what do you think?

EDIT: BTW, Bergeon's One-dip has been replaced by something they call B-dip. I wonder if it works the same and would be as appropriate as One-dip for cleaning the reversers!? I would guess so but thought I'd mention it.

Your method probably still suits the NOS reversers on which oil is likely to have expired and you best clean and re- lube.

[VWatchie]

16 minutes ago, HSL said:

it doesn't always have to rotate like a mad Viking at midsummer. 

 OK, thanks!

What about the gears separating from the pinions? Are all ETA reversers constructed like that? I'm puzzled as I never noticed anything like that with the few automatic ETAs that I've serviced (calibres 2472, 2772, and 2824-2).

[VWatchie]

10 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Your method probably still suits the NOS reversers on which oil is likely to have expired and you best clean and re- lube.

Sometimes Nuce, it's not all that easy to understand what you're trying to say!?

EDIT: And oh, could you use a font a bit smaller in size? I guess visually impaired members appreciate it, but they have more than likely already activated the help you can get in the OS. Just a friendly suggestion!

Edited July 21, 2020 by VWatchie

[HSL]

17 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Are all ETA reversers constructed like that? I'm puzzled as I never noticed anything like that with the few automatic ETAs that I've serviced (calibres 2472, 2772, and 2824-2).

I don't know if every one has it but atleast the ones you mentioned and a couple more. the small pinion is sitting under the left wheel which is the one driving the rest. On the right one you dont need one.

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Sometimes Nuce, it's not all that easy to understand what you're trying to say!?

EDIT: And oh, could you use a font a bit smaller in size? I guess visually impaired members appreciate it, but they have more than likely already activated the help you can get in the OS. Just a friendly suggestion!

NOS reversers are unused but might be 20 yrs old so oil on them has long expired and sometimes dried, in which case you would need to clean the old oil and

re-lube. The method you described above works just fine in such a case. 

I first thought of large font out of great respect for OH, hope he is comfortable with this font. 

Glad you are comfortable with small font as well.

Regards

[VWatchie]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

NOS reversers are unused but might be 20 yrs old so oil on them has long expired and sometimes dried, in which case you would need to clean the old oil and

re-lube. The method you described above works just fine in such a case. 

Ah, crystal clear, and with that font size can't be missed!  Thank you!

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I first thought of large font out of great respect for OH, hope he is comfortable with this font. 

I don't know who OH is, but I'm sure he knows how to enlarge a normal font size using the many wonderful features of modern day operating systems. However, I admire your thoughtfulness! No disrespect, but I personally find your font size too intrusive and harder to follow/read. Personally I always wear terminal glasses and enlarge to about 150 % as my eyesight isn't the best. Anyway, it is your choice, and whatever it is I respect it. Just wanted to give you my opinion.

[Nucejoe]

2 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Ah, crystal clear, and with that font size can't be missed!  Thank you!

I don't know who OH is, but I'm sure he knows how to enlarge a normal font size using the many wonderful features of modern day operating systems. However, I admire your thoughtfulness! No disrespect, but I personally find your font size too intrusive and harder to follow/read. Personally I always wear terminal glasses and enlarge to about 150 % as my eyesight isn't the best. Anyway, it is your choice, and whatever it is I respect it. Just wanted to give you my opinion.

OH is our much respected moderator with the stage name oldhippy. A true gentleman from whom I have learned most of all.

[VWatchie]

14 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

OH is our much respected moderator with the stage name oldhippy. A true gentleman from whom I have learned most of all.

 

And you'll find my contribution to "OH" and any other members with less than perfect eyesight here, which also has the additional benefit of making all members' text larger and thereby easier to read.

[Nucejoe]

 Enlarging text focuses on whats being written or red and drives words at ends of the line out of the screen, or am I doing something wrong? mine is just a tablet.

Look how big of glasses he wears to play piano  I can do that with eyes closed.

Regards Joe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

 A two year old discussion, in which  HSL shows how to clean, lube and epilame treat the reversers of an auto winder device.  He tells of epilame diluted in alchohol, the alchohol is only a carrier which evaporates and leaves a  epilame residue that coats the parts and keeps lubricants where put. 

I only have isopropinal, lighter flhid, avegas, paint thinner( carburator cleaner)  to use as the carrier.

My question is ;        What is the best  alchohol to use as the carrier? 

Regds 

 

[madoxiviparr]

i know this is pretty out dated but can the parts of 2484 be replaced with 2824s? I have a worn out 2484 rotor that needs to be replaced but just couldnt find any on the market.

thanks!

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, madoxiviparr said:

i know this is pretty out dated but can the parts of 2484 be replaced with 2824s? I have a worn out 2484 rotor that needs to be replaced but just couldnt find any on the market.

thanks!

Does S stand for sellita?