Jump to content

1911 Elgin Pocket Watch I found today.


Recommended Posts

I had time to kill before an appointment today so I popped into a local thrift store and asked if they had any watches, The lady rummaged under the counter and brought out a box of random quartzs and, under a bunch of Genevas and "Frozen" watches, I saw this:

WDHUz8n.jpg

 

Made in 1911, grade 336, 18s, 17 jewels... I said, "Yes, I think I'll have this one, please". 

 

DfVRp5u.jpg

 

It will run nicely sitting on its crystal but the balance wheel catches on the underside of the balance cock when turned on its back. There seems to be a substantial bend in the hairspring that may be the cause. 

n04Wj8C.jpg

I think I'll hold on to this one for a while. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unscrew the hairspring stud screw while the balance is still installed (will make things easier) and remove the balance afterwards. Don't unscrew it too much so that it falls out of the slot.

Then you just remove the hairspring and balance like any watch, yes.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, MyFavoriteObsession said:

I've only had minimal experience taking balance assemblies in and out of wristwatches so I'm not sure I'm capable of this repair. Is removing the balance cock to check the pivot on this Elgin more or less similar to the procedure on a wristwatch? 

     have you looked at a video or read up on removing the balance.      vin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MyFavoriteObsession said:

I had time to kill before an appointment today so I popped into a local thrift store and asked if they had any watches, The lady rummaged under the counter and brought out a box of random quartzs and, under a bunch of Genevas and "Frozen" watches, I saw this:

WDHUz8n.jpg

 

Made in 1911, grade 336, 18s, 17 jewels... I said, "Yes, I think I'll have this one, please". 

 

DfVRp5u.jpg

 

It will run nicely sitting on its crystal but the balance wheel catches on the underside of the balance cock when turned on its back. There seems to be a substantial bend in the hairspring that may be the cause. 

n04Wj8C.jpg

I think I'll hold on to this one for a while. 

     the hair spring can be reshaped with "rounding plyers".   i'll post a photo.    vin

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Chopin said:

Unscrew the hairspring stud screw while the balance is still installed (will make things easier) and remove the balance afterwards.

I removed the balance as you described and the pivots looked really good on both ends. The jewels also looked good. Put back together and it still did the same thing. Then I noticed the hairspring is touching the underside of the balance bridge when the watch is turned onto it's back, preventing it from swinging freely. Oh well, there's time to think on it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When the hairspring and balance are in place can you try to figure out why it is touching the underside ? Best to do that before taking any measures such as modifying components.

Is the hairspring itself horizontal as it should be ? Are there coils that are not synchronized with the rest of the hairspring ? What about the hairspring leaving the stud, is there any issue there ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: I reshaped the hairspring just a bit and it's no longer touching the underside, however it still stops working when turned over so you and Nickelsilver probably right about it being a pivot or jewel. When I turn the watch over, I hear "tick tick tick tick scratch scratch clink" and it has stopped. Do you think that indicates a broken balance pivot?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only had minimal experience taking balance assemblies in and out of wristwatches so I'm not sure I'm capable of this repair. Is removing the balance cock to check the pivot on this Elgin more or less similar to the procedure on a wristwatch? 

I can actually make a new balance staff on a lathe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remove the balance complete as you would regular ones.

1- Unscrew the stud screw.

2-Remove the cock screw, lift the cock balance assembly( balance not dangling)

3- Turn the boot, check that HS is free to get out of regulator slot.

4- Grab the cock with tweezers balance dangling, hold about a cm or less above bench, push the stud out. Let the balance drop on bench or parts tray.

Diagnostics starts with a close up of pivots. Damaged or worn short pivots are expected.

Pivot shoulder rubs on jewel if pivot is short.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • An incabloc spring? About 10p at the current price 🤣
    • Have you ever seen grease spread?  I use Molykote DX on the keyless, cannon pinion, etc and cannot imagine it spreading. Similarly, HP1300 should not be a problem, as long as you don't splash too much about.  9010 does like to travel though. I've recently re-serviced a couple of my watches I first serviced about 5 years ago. I was a bit too liberal with the oil and grease back then, but it hasn't spread everywhere. I only epilame on balance cap stones, escape wheel and pallet stones (and auto wheels if they need it).   If you use it all over, the oil might bead-up and travel even further - think of using RainX on your car windows.
    • Polish it where the old part cracked as well. Get rid of the stress-raisers.
    • Sounds great! And yes, I would use grease for the keyless as well although treating the parts with epilame would make the grease less likely to spread in the long run. Not critical but won’t hurt. My current strategy is to epilame treat all parts getting in contact with oil or grease.
    • Hello everyone, for what it's worth, here is my approach: 1. Escape wheel submerged in Epilame, then dried quickly with a hairdryer. Then the final tip of the pivots are cleaned by poking into pithwood. The logic being that the Epilame is removed at the intended contact point (to avoid any residue that may mix with the oil), but remains in the areas where oil is not supposed to spread to (further down the pivot towards the wheel). The escape wheel teeth also benefit from having Epilame to keep the 9415 in place.  2. I use a syringe to treat only the pallet stones. I suspend the pallet fork with some Rodico so that the stones hang downwards. I notably use a rather thick needle where a drop WON'T form, but rather where the Epilame liquid stays in the needle tip, which I then dip into the pallet stones. It requires some practice to get the right amount of Epilame into the needle tip, but it works for me now. This way, no drop will "jump" onto the pallet fork and potentially go all the way to the pivots.  3. I let the movement run for a few minutes without lubricating the pallet stones... to scrape off the Epilame in the intended contact "channel". Then I remove the balance again and lubricate the exit pallet stone with 3-4 successive drops. See the "channel" that forms on the pallet stone in the picture -- not so easy to see, but it's visible.       I am conflicted about the use of Epliame in balance jewel settings. My impression is that the two jewels sufficiently suspend the oil (even 9010). Apparently Rolex recommends NOT to use Epliame there (heard from a former Rolex service center watchmaker), as it could cause additional wear. Apart from that, I follow specific instructions where I can find them. E.g. the infamous Rolex reverser wheels or sometimes (parts of) the seconds wheel. Exception: I'm currently servicing an Eta 2824 and will probably ignore the service sheet that recommends treating the whole keyless works with Epilame and then using HP1300... I'll skip the Epilame and use 9504 grease.        
×
×
  • Create New...