Cannon Pinion Tightening Tool

[canthus]

I seem to be having a run of loose cannon pinions, especially on small calibre (ladies) movements.  Don't have a tool for tightening so would like advice for suitable tool.  I have seen the Bergeon pliers type but wow are they expensive!  Do not want one that needs jeweling tools etc to use it.  Any suggestions/sources most appreciated.

[watchweasol]

Hi  There are some which come up on Ebay  that are like a small chisel like punch on a small chisel anvil for pinching the cannon.  I have managed it with a pair of top cutters that are blunt but its too easy to over do it. If you have a staking tool you could use that with the appropriate stake and punch.

[vinn3]

you can "dub" nippers or diaginal cutters to do the job, but put a rod (drill shank) of the proper diameter so you don't "over crush".    vin

[Nikia]

I’ve managed to fix some really old ones McGyver’s style: a bit of plumber’s teflon tape where the cannon pinion fits ahah

[jdrichard]

I’ve managed to fix some really old ones McGyver’s style: a bit of plumber’s teflon tape where the cannon pinion fits ahah

Wow, just wow.


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[vinn3]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:49 PM, jdrichard said:

Wow, just wow.


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  would that be "franken watch plumber's tape"   vub

[canthus]

Thanks for your responses.  I will keep an eye on the bay for a proper tool. In the meantime I have some old nail clippers and have flattened the cutting edges on it.  I might try and drill a hole and fit and adjustable/locking screw for better control (not sure if the material might be too hard to do this.  If not I'll give it a go without.

[jdrichard]

  would that be "franken watch plumber's tape"   vub

It is a man's man solution to repair....should have used duct tape a la Red Green

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[canthus]

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

[jdrichard]

I love it, great job and nice tool.


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[canthus]

Now managed to get a thin piece of steel wire to which I filed a taper and polished it and which now fits in the cannon pinion for a ladies watch.  I mounted the tool in a small bench vice so that the screws end was upwards.  This leaves 2 hands for turning the setting and pinching screws. It also made it much easier to fit the cannon pinion in position as it is fed downwards into the pinching slot to get the starting set point, and allows the wire to be manipulated to feel a good pinch status and allow removal of wire.  I did note that the pinching screw can still be tightened beyond the stop screw setting due to flexibility of the arms, but this actually allowed a bit more control over the pinch !!  The cannon seems to be working fine now.

Edited April 8, 2020 by canthus

[LittleWatchShop]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:11 PM, Nikia said:

I’ve managed to fix some really old ones McGyver’s style: a bit of plumber’s teflon tape where the cannon pinion fits ahah

Been having a devil of a time with a slipping cannon pinion.  Used my tool to tighten, but after several tries, I was afraid to get to a point of no return.  So I have tried the teflon tape idea...hoping it works...tired of fighting this thing.

[Nucejoe]

On 1/28/2020 at 3:51 PM, jdrichard said:

It is a man's man solution to repair....should have used duct tape a la Red Green

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Look at the possitive side jd, we can regard this plumbers tape technology as pioneering work on water proof canon pinions.

[Nucejoe]

@canthus,   

 I  meant to show picture of your design and searched for it to no avail, its more versatile than the one I made. 

We are both safe as long as bergeon doesn't find us.  LOL

Regds

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:49 PM, jdrichard said:

Wow, just wow.


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I was just thinking the same myself. I've used ptfe tape to pack out the odd waste pipe thread. But really ?  Nick i think you jest sir

[Burruz]

On 3/11/2020 at 3:16 PM, canthus said:

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

 

Thankyou, his looks like a great idea! Would you have the lower (cutting face) flattened off so you only crimp one side or is the point to crimp both sides?

Sorry just read your instructions properly. So you do not leave one jaw more pointed?

[Neverenoughwatches]

43 minutes ago, Burruz said:

 

Thankyou, his looks like a great idea! Would you have the lower (cutting face) flattened off so you only crimp one side or is the point to crimp both sides?

Sorry just read your instructions properly. So you do not leave one jaw more pointed?

All the cannon pinions i have seen have the detent on both sides, i would assume to keep it central to the center wheel arbor. Be sure to tighten at the same position and use a restricting rod inside the cannon pinion to prevent over tightening, carefully broach out if that happens.

[nickelsilver]

If you find that a cannon pinion is too tight, the easy fix is to give it a squeeze right on the indents with it installed. This actually causes it to open a tiny bit.

[RichardHarris123]

7 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

If you find that a cannon pinion is too tight, the easy fix is to give it a squeeze right on the indents with it installed. This actually causes it to open a tiny bit.

How does that work? 

[nickelsilver]

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

How does that work? 

Since the metal wants to deform, but can't go "in" it goes out, once the pressure is off. Works great!

[rehajm]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:16 AM, canthus said:

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

This is a wonderful tool but I cannot let pass an opportunity to comment on the pleasant aesthetic of this presentation, like some kind of ‘retro-technical’ comic book style. I find it quite amazing- well done!

…on topic, one of the classic books demonstrated using the pointy four sided punch to tighten the canon pinion. The punch creates the small pattern of raised edges in the base. It isn’t obvious to me why this alternative method is not preferred? I find the pinch method risky and despite great care have damaged a pinion this way…

[Malocchio]

I have used these with my "Horia". I wouldn't dare use anything else. I like having precise control over how much I compress the cannon pinion. I also use the same tools for tightening seconds hand tubes.

Edited January 18 by Malocchio

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, Malocchio said:

I have used these with my "Horia". I wouldn't dare use anything else. I like having precise control over how much I compress the cannon pinion. I also use the same tools for tightening seconds hand tubes.

I have these as well and have used them on my Seitz.  I have a Horia clone now and might revisit using it for this purpose.  Precision is nice.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Malocchio said:

I also use the same tools for tightening seconds hand tubes.

A really small pinvice works very well also

[Malocchio]

46 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

A really small pinvice works very well also

I've tried one but the thing I like more with the Horia is that I can put the hand tube between the "jaws", flip the tool on its side under the microscope and see the tube compress just a bit while I turn the micrometer.