Jump to content

Cannon Pinion Tightening Tool

canthus
 Share

Recommended Posts

canthus Super WRT Addict

canthus

Posted
Posted

I seem to be having a run of loose cannon pinions, especially on small calibre (ladies) movements.  Don't have a tool for tightening so would like advice for suitable tool.  I have seen the Bergeon pliers type but wow are they expensive!  Do not want one that needs jeweling tools etc to use it.  Any suggestions/sources most appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
watchweasol Distinguished Member

watchweasol

Posted
Posted

Hi  There are some which come up on Ebay  that are like a small chisel like punch on a small chisel anvil for pinching the cannon.  I have managed it with a pair of top cutters that are blunt but its too easy to over do it. If you have a staking tool you could use that with the appropriate stake and punch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
canthus Super WRT Addict

canthus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for your responses.  I will keep an eye on the bay for a proper tool. In the meantime I have some old nail clippers and have flattened the cutting edges on it.  I might try and drill a hole and fit and adjustable/locking screw for better control (not sure if the material might be too hard to do this.  If not I'll give it a go without.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
canthus Super WRT Addict

canthus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

1. COMPONENTS.jpg

2. ASSEMBLY.JPG

3. TOOL.jpg

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
canthus Super WRT Addict

canthus

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Now managed to get a thin piece of steel wire to which I filed a taper and polished it and which now fits in the cannon pinion for a ladies watch.  I mounted the tool in a small bench vice so that the screws end was upwards.  This leaves 2 hands for turning the setting and pinching screws. It also made it much easier to fit the cannon pinion in position as it is fed downwards into the pinching slot to get the starting set point, and allows the wire to be manipulated to feel a good pinch status and allow removal of wire.  I did note that the pinching screw can still be tightened beyond the stop screw setting due to flexibility of the arms, but this actually allowed a bit more control over the pinch !!  The cannon seems to be working fine now.

Edited by canthus
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 9 months later...
LittleWatchShop Distinguished Member

LittleWatchShop

Posted
Posted
On 1/26/2020 at 1:11 PM, Nikia said:

I’ve managed to fix some really old ones McGyver’s style: a bit of plumber’s teflon tape where the cannon pinion fits ahah

Been having a devil of a time with a slipping cannon pinion.  Used my tool to tighten, but after several tries, I was afraid to get to a point of no return.  So I have tried the teflon tape idea...hoping it works...tired of fighting this thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted
On 1/28/2020 at 3:51 PM, jdrichard said:


It is a man's man solution to repair....should have used duct tape a la Red Green

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
 

Look at the possitive side jd, we can regard this plumbers tape technology as pioneering work on water proof canon pinions.?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...
Burruz Member

Burruz

Posted
Posted
On 3/11/2020 at 3:16 PM, canthus said:

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

1. COMPONENTS.jpg

2. ASSEMBLY.JPG

3. TOOL.jpg

 

Thankyou, his looks like a great idea! Would you have the lower (cutting face) flattened off so you only crimp one side or is the point to crimp both sides?

Sorry just read your instructions properly. So you do not leave one jaw more pointed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Burruz said:

 

Thankyou, his looks like a great idea! Would you have the lower (cutting face) flattened off so you only crimp one side or is the point to crimp both sides?

Sorry just read your instructions properly. So you do not leave one jaw more pointed?

All the cannon pinions i have seen have the detent on both sides, i would assume to keep it central to the center wheel arbor. Be sure to tighten at the same position and use a restricting rod inside the cannon pinion to prevent over tightening, carefully broach out if that happens.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rehajm Super WRT Addict

rehajm

Posted
Posted
On 3/11/2020 at 11:16 AM, canthus said:

Here are some pics of my nail-clipper mods, for those hobbyists who do not have lots of cash!!

Only cost would be for a suitable drill for the setting screw hole (tungsten carbide needed as material of arms is very tough), the rest from the 'bits box'. The original pin for the lever was 5mm diam hence the crimp screw diam, this could be different for other clippers. Any epoxy would do but JB weld sets very hard. The setting screw can be any size provided it does not compromise the integrity of the arm (ie weakening it across the arm) and the locking nut fit re fouling the crimp screw head.  The crimp screw could be in the other way but thought easier to have both screw heads on same side.

1. COMPONENTS.jpg

2. ASSEMBLY.JPG

3. TOOL.jpg

This is a wonderful tool but I cannot let pass an opportunity to comment on the pleasant aesthetic of this presentation, like some kind of ‘retro-technical’ comic book style. I find it quite amazing- well done!

…on topic, one of the classic books demonstrated using the pointy four sided punch to tighten the canon pinion. The punch creates the small pattern of raised edges in the base. It isn’t obvious to me why this alternative method is not preferred? I find the pinch method risky and despite great care have damaged a pinion this way…😕

IMG_1290.thumb.jpeg.721524c98fbcb86b7f4dae3245f79c5b.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Malocchio WRT Addict

Malocchio

Posted
Posted (edited)

image.png.95e3dbd57bed678b41efb152f527a8e3.png

I have used these with my "Horia". I wouldn't dare use anything else. I like having precise control over how much I compress the cannon pinion. I also use the same tools for tightening seconds hand tubes.

Edited by Malocchio
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LittleWatchShop Distinguished Member

LittleWatchShop

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Malocchio said:

image.png.95e3dbd57bed678b41efb152f527a8e3.png

I have used these with my "Horia". I wouldn't dare use anything else. I like having precise control over how much I compress the cannon pinion. I also use the same tools for tightening seconds hand tubes.

I have these as well and have used them on my Seitz.  I have a Horia clone now and might revisit using it for this purpose.  Precision is nice.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Malocchio WRT Addict

Malocchio

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

A really small pinvice works very well also

I've tried one but the thing I like more with the Horia is that I can put the hand tube between the "jaws", flip the tool on its side under the microscope and see the tube compress just a bit while I turn the micrometer.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • nickelsilver
      What are these Seitz B-Jewels?

      By nickelsilver · Posted

      I've seen some really nice early 20th century pieces where all the jewels, including center wheel, were convex. Definitely to reduce friction. It can be quite hard to tell if a jewel has olive holes, especially on small sizes, but that again reduces friction- as well as accommodates small misalignments better. Why they aren't used more often? I imagine it was found that at a certain point in the train the actual advantage became negligible, and the added cost on high production movements is why it's not seen on those, just higher-end pieces.   I did an experiment on a little 5x7"' AS 1012 a few years back. These things run OK sometimes, but often are absolute dogs. And AS made gajillions of them. I had a NOS novelty watch in for a service, ran OK flat, massive drop in amplitude vertical. Made like 3 staffs for it trying different pivot sizes, no change. Tried high quality (not Seitz) convex/olive jewels, no change- the original were flat, but could have been olive hole. Same for the pallet fork, then escape wheel, no change. Probably had 20 hours in the watch, new staff and new hole jewels through the escape wheel, no difference in running. Just a dog of a movement. But if I were making a watch I would use them, just because.
    • Neverenoughwatches
      What are these Seitz B-Jewels?

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      When Nicklesilver mentioned the use of them on non coned pivots on older high end watches closer to the escapement.  That suggested to me  probably fourth wheels and possibly third wheels. The square shoulder rotatating on the much smaller surface area of a dome as opposed to a flat jewel surface. I'm curious as to why they are not used predominantly?
    • VWatchie
      What are these Seitz B-Jewels?

      By VWatchie · Posted

      That's what I thought, but as I said, it makes sense. See if any of our pros will have something to add.
    • Neverenoughwatches
      What are these Seitz B-Jewels?

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      Kind of guessing here watchie with a bit of logic.
    • rossjackson01
      Canon with FE 4612a movement

      By rossjackson01 · Posted

      Canon with FE 4612a movement. Day and Date display Trying something new. Although is will take some time for me to start, I have a back injury that is very painful and so cannot concentrate. Set myself a target to begin mid May. Purchased a Canon wrist watch with  FE 4612a movement. Advertised with Rotor missing. Arrived, took photographs. Strap broken, removed and place in bin. Back removed. No rotor. Wind is stiff. Can wind up. Everything moves ok. Oscillates for under a minute, then stops. No rotor but all wheels appear the be there. Have sent for a donor movement FE4612. No day wheel.  I have taken basic photographs up to the point of service commencement. I will try a new format and use the record system on the microscope to show the full disassembly subsequent assembly. I will photograph the cleaning process.  Whilst I have no intention beginning a YouTube channel, I would like to begin to make a better record of my work standard. Work to do.  Make case to a better standard. Repair crystal. Replace strap.  Only a thought. I will try to insert an English day wheel. Not sure if it can be done, but hey, what can I lose. Got to stop now, back so sore.
×
×
  • Create New...