Regulating an ETA quartz movement

[ftwizard]

So, I obtained and fitted a new movement as pictured. It runs a little fast, + 5secs a day.

Is there any way to regulate it?

If so, how much do you think I should turn it?

 

 

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[oldhippy]

Many of the older types had what is called a trimmer screw which would regulate the movement. I do not know if yours has one. I never went into quartz watch repairs. To me this sound a lot and I would send it back, to me its faulty. Sorry I can't be more helpful    

[jdm]

Without searching on this specific module, the screw just below the + sign looks like a regulating trimmer. Long time I didn't saw one.

If you get a frequency measuring multi-meter (very cheap these days) maybe that helps regulating to 1 pps. Very great website for choosing one https://lygte-info.dk/info/indexDMMReviews UK.html

Edited January 9, 2020 by jdm

[vinn3]

    i looked at the site,  thanks.     i know that device as a " volt ohm meter".   i use it a lot.   how is it used to "Trim"  a quarts watch?   i know we have an "electrical engneer"  somewhere in this forum.   vin

[vinn3]

45 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Many of the older types had what is called a trimmer screw which would regulate the movement. I do not know if yours has one. I never went into quartz watch repairs. To me this sound a lot and I would send it back, to me its faulty. Sorry I can't be more helpful    

   i like the mechanics of a vintage watch.  in my next life i might be an electrian.

[jdm]

33 minutes ago, vinn3 said:

    i looked at the site,  thanks.     i know that device as a " volt ohm meter".   i use it a lot.   how is it used to "Trim"  a quarts watch?  

In short (pun not intended), at the crystal output you get (almost always) a frequency of 32 KHz. And at the coil/circuit output, 1 Hz. Crystals can lose accuracy due to temperature changes, and age. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by jdm

[Ajohnw]

I have wondered if a timing machine can do this. Some go down to what I think is the correct bph but tried it and the graph was rather strange and of no use. I wondered if that was down to lift angle setting as they don't have one - maybe.

From an interest in amateur radio the usual things that age more is the bits around the crystal that cause it to oscillate. Temperature has an effect on those and the crystal as well.

I understand modern quartz watches are calibrated via programming the watch so there isn't any adjustment. May just relate to more expensive one but would be easy to do with all - just design fast and skip some of the 32kHz pulses now and again.

I'd adjust it by making small adjustments ever day till it was correct if a timing machine can't do the job. Accurate frequency meters are likely to be expensive. Don't know I have only ever bought tat.

John

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[jdm]

26 minutes ago, Ajohnw said:

I have wondered if a timing machine can do this.

It depends on the machine. For sure the Chinese ones that most people here uses don't lock on a quartz, no matter if in auto or manual beat. Desktop applications use a quartz sound to calibrate, but not sure if they can then measure. The Swiss have dedicated, uber-expensive quartz analyzers. Also Seiko made a model of two. 

[watchweasol]

Hi   The quartz watch frequency is 32,768Hz chopped down by the IC to 1Hz to drive the stepper motor most watches used a self correction method =,  the  circuitry monitors the o/p of the chip and self corrects the pulses The on in the pic has a trimmer which is usually factory set. All this belies the fact that what the factory decrees is an acceptable deviation, as far as they are concerned it may be within the specified tolerance. As this is a new module I would contact the supplier for a possible exchange if the rate is not tolerable, most quartz watches even cheap ones are pretty accurate.

What is the make and caliber of the movement,    I have attached some light reading for you regarding quartz watches and how they work.

Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf

[ftwizard]

It's an obsolete ETA 965.1** , so the module is an NOS item and as such, you pays your money and you takes your chance I guess. I'm not overly unhappy with the way it performs, but if it can be adjusted, then I'd like to give it a go.

I assumed the adjustment was as stated, I just wondered if anyone knew how much to turn the variable resistor for a certain increase/decrease.

[watchweasol]

Hi     Its a bit of a pratt,   The adjustment as I can make out on the trimmer is a/c towards the plus or c/w towards the minus  So best guess is to turn it one way and see but use a placstic trim tool as a metal screw drive can affect the reading.  I have had a look round and so far have found no tech data.

[watchweasol]

Hi    Managed to find some tech sheets,  hopr you find them useful     cheers

ETA 956.031, 956.101, 956.111, 956.121, 956.401, 956.411, 956.421, 956.431.pdf

[StuartBaker104]

Anti-clockwise should slow it down in my experience. These trimmers are quite sensitive, but not so much as a mechanical balance regulator.

if you don’t have a meter to check it, I would go for about 1/12 of a turn (like the distance between 1 and 12 on a watch face) and check over 24 hours.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

So best guess is to turn it one way and see but use a placstic trim tool as a metal screw drive can affect the reading.

Good point especially when there is radio frequency around IIRC. But actually I'm happy that mechanical watches are .. mechanical 

[ftwizard]

31 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi    Managed to find some tech sheets,  hopr you find them useful     cheers

ETA 956.031, 956.101, 956.111, 956.121, 956.401, 956.411, 956.421, 956.431.pdf 1.67 MB · 3 downloads

Thanks, but that's not the right calibre. Should be 965.101 They were useful however. Where did you find them?

[ftwizard]

33 minutes ago, StuartBaker104 said:

Anti-clockwise should slow it down in my experience. These trimmers are quite sensitive, but not so much as a mechanical balance regulator.

if you don’t have a meter to check it, I would go for about 1/12 of a turn (like the distance between 1 and 12 on a watch face) and check over 24 hours.

Thanks, that's exactly what I did. Don't think it's enough though, but I'll see tomorrow.

[watchweasol]

Hi unless you have access to a frequency meter or ocilloscope adjusting it is a bit hit and miss tweaking the trimmer but having said that you should be able to achieve your aim.  These are pre set at the factory using  electronic calibrating equiptment. Beyond our means, I use a Horotec tester with attachments for Quartz analogue, mechanical ,  and pendulum clocks. Its a class bit of kit although its the size of the average multimeter .  unfortunatly no longer made.  There are bits of kit out there that do the same but not cheap.

By the way  I found the sheets on Esslingers site in the US..

[praezis]

My advice is, go to a watch repair shop and have it adjusted, what is a matter of seconds. 

But be aware, that rate changes
- cased / uncased
- on the arm (warm) / on the desk (cold).

So such adjustment should be made after wearing a quartz watch for some weeks and then just correct the resulting real-life error.

Trimmer: which direction gives fast/slow is undetermined! The trimmer is a variable capacitor with 2 halfround conducting areas, the upper one can be revolved without a stop.
Picture shows lower (red) and upper (blue) part of the trimmer:

Frank

 

[ftwizard]

On 1/9/2020 at 9:12 PM, StuartBaker104 said:

Anti-clockwise should slow it down in my experience. These trimmers are quite sensitive, but not so much as a mechanical balance regulator.

if you don’t have a meter to check it, I would go for about 1/12 of a turn (like the distance between 1 and 12 on a watch face) and check over 24 hours.

Thanks, that's exactly what I did. Don't think it's enough though, but I'll see tomorrow.

 

On 1/10/2020 at 1:52 PM, praezis said:

My advice is, go to a watch repair shop and have it adjusted, what is a matter of seconds. 

But be aware, that rate changes
- cased / uncased
- on the arm (warm) / on the desk (cold).

So such adjustment should be made after wearing a quartz watch for some weeks and then just correct the resulting real-life error.

Trimmer: which direction gives fast/slow is undetermined! The trimmer is a variable capacitor with 2 halfround conducting areas, the upper one can be revolved without a stop.
Picture shows lower (red) and upper (blue) part of the trimmer:

Frank

 

Thanks, that's very interesting and useful information. The adjustment I made seems to be pretty near the mark, and good enough for me, but I can see that it really needs to be done with a frequency meter, simply because of the amazing accuracy that can be achieved.

Thanks for everyones help (as usual)

[JohnD]

I'm fortunate to own one of these Seiko QT-99 Quartztesters, it might be about 45 years old but it is brilliant, you can even time LCD watches, conventional quartz watches and even electric/electronic hybrid mechanical watches with it, even managed to time a Timex jump minute hand quartz watch that only gives one pulse every 60 seconds (set the gate time to 120 seconds instead of the usual 10 seconds)

Shown here with a vintage JDM Seiko 3862 from 1973, 0.1 seconds a day, not bad for a nearly 50 year old watch...

Been a really good investment...