'67 Timex Marlin crown unwinds immediately when wound.

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Hello everyone, I received a 1967 Timex Marlin (13032467) and, when I go to wind it, the crown unwinds in my hand immediately. Could anyone please advise where I might begin to diagnose what's going on? I'm very new to watch repair and grateful for any advice at all! Thank you. 

[Nucejoe]

Sounds like the click failing.

Regards 

[JerseyMo]

yes, agreed it seems to be related to the click. BUt on that era of the #24 it is very odd.  You will have to lift the hands and dial to have a look at the winding gear and click.

 

ALos, that is not a Marlin, rather it is a Mercury.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by JerseyMo
typo

[AndyHull]

Removal of the dial is a delicate operation. You need to bend back the retaining tabs, just enough to be able to lift the dial off. Look through this forum, there are several walk through threads that show the process. Take care not to scratch that dial, it is in very nice condition.

[Tore]

I am pretty sure you dont have to lift the hands from the dial. Just lift the dial with the hands in place.

 

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, Tore said:

I am pretty sure you dont have to lift the hands from the dial. Just lift the dial with the hands in place.

 

I would remove the hands first. Protect the dial with some plastic, and use a couple of small watchmakers screwdrivers or a hand puller.
Lifting the dial with the hands in place will cause them to come off, but that may mar the dial.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Here is the times 24 manual It will be of assistance for you when you dismantle the movement. I definitley sounds like the click failing to engage, broken spring or click are the main possibilities,

timex 24.pdf

[Tore]

[Tore]

This is a very speciel movement. Just remove second hand.

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Thank you all very much for the information. I'm going to take a bit to digest it all before continuing. 

[vinn3]

6 hours ago, Tore said:

I am pretty sure you dont have to lift the hands from the dial. Just lift the dial with the hands in place.

 

    to prevent the hands flying off and lost ---- take them off.   i slip a piece of paper between  the hands and the dial - to prevent scratching.  pry them off one at a time or as a stack.   i use 2  xo knives.  AND work under a sheet of plastic to insure "no ping"     vin   

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Nucejoe, you were correct, the click is not engaging as the ratchet wheel turns. JerseyMo, thank you for identifying it as a Marlin (and for the loads of Timex info on this forum as well). Watchweasol, thank you for the manual, I was able to remove the second hand and release the dial tabs. Tore and Vinn, thanks for the info on the second hand. 

I have cleaned around the click and tested the spring. It has decent resistance from both directions. As long as the click doesn't fully disengage, it will turn the ratchet wheel in the correct direction but as soon as it is clear of the teeth, it remains disengaged and requires substantial pressure to return to position. I have a bottle of Liberty 100% synthetic clock oil but I'm not sure it's safe to use on watch movements. Any thoughts on where to go from here? 

[AndyHull]

5 minutes ago, MyFavoriteObsession said:

I have a bottle of Liberty 100% synthetic clock oil but I'm not sure it's safe to use on watch movements. Any thoughts on where to go from here? 

To be brutally frank, it is a Timex, and it wont be too fussy what you oil it with, however before you oil it I would advise cleaning the movement.

This can be done by dropping it in lighter fluid (as I said.. it is a Timex, they are pretty robust) and letting it sit for ten minutes or so.  Remove it, dry it on a lint free cloth, or paper towels, then oil it.

Just in case you think I'm kidding about the lighter fluid, here is one I prepared earlier.

Take care to ensure all the lighter fluid has evaporated, particularly from the hairspring, and don't be tempted to blast compressed air in to dry it, as you may bend the hairspring in the process.

Cleaning it may be all that is required to sort out the gummed up click. A suitable watch oil would be best to lubricate it, but a light clock oil would probably be fine, so long as it isn't too viscous.  Don't try dunking a delicate Swiss watch in lighter fluid like this, it may not end well.

[JerseyMo]

so if the click is ok than check the rachet wheel lays flat agaionst the top plate at all times. If you notice it goes up at an angle than that is the area of concern.  The wheel maybe bent, or the mainspring arbor and so on.

 

Now about that video of dropping in the movement with dial and hands into liquid...... I do not recommend doing so.  Not only can that lift all the printing from the dial but, it will alos not allow any you inspect and oli the working under the dial.

 

[AndyHull]

41 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

Now about that video of dropping in the movement with dial and hands into liquid...... I do not recommend doing so.  Not only can that lift all the printing from the dial but, it will also not allow any you inspect and oil the working under the dial.

.. I totally agree. This is not the way to do things. At least not the recommended way, however it does illustrate the point that these Timex movements are pretty forgiving.

The method of cleaning described in the service manual is correct (although I must confess I rarely remove the balance, as described in the service manual, unless the amplitude remains poor after cleaning without removing it).

The dial and hands should always be removed, even on a Timex, as there is a risk of damage to the finish on these parts. Furthermore, without removing them, you cannot lubricate or inspect any of the parts on the dial side, which means they will be running dry, and may not be clean, which would increase wear.

Edited December 27, 2019 by AndyHull

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Taking all that into consideration, I've attempted a more targeted approach by applying a small amount of lighter fluid to just the click mechanism while ensuring it drained away from the rest of the watch. The click still doesn't engage willingly, but when I wind it and engage it myself, the watch does run, balance wheel visibly moving. 

[vinn3]

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

To be brutally frank, it is a Timex, and it wont be too fussy what you oil it with, however before you oil it I would advise cleaning the movement.

This can be done by dropping it in lighter fluid (as I said.. it is a Timex, they are pretty robust) and letting it sit for ten minutes or so.  Remove it, dry it on a lint free cloth, or paper towels, then oil it.

Just in case you think I'm kidding about the lighter fluid, here is one I prepared earlier.

Take care to ensure all the lighter fluid has evaporated, particularly from the hairspring, and don't be tempted to blast compressed air in to dry it, as you may bend the hairspring in the process.

Cleaning it may be all that is required to sort out the gummed up click. A suitable watch oil would be best to lubricate it, but a light clock oil would probably be fine, so long as it isn't too viscous.  Don't try dunking a delicate Swiss watch in lighter fluid like this, it may not end well.

      isopropel alcohol and  acetone will evaporate cleaner than lighter fluid.  ON A  Timex like that.!  don't use on a jeweled watch or clock or in your cig. lighter.     vin

[MyFavoriteObsession]

I've been at it all afternoon and it's still not engaging. I've removed the ratchet wheel to allow greater movement of the click and, at this point, I can only assume that the click spring isn't providing enough force to push the click back into position. In the photo, the click spring is completely compressed and it still will not move the click. Think I'll have to set this aside for a while and think on it. If anyone has any further ideas, I'm extremely grateful to hear them and thank you again for the input.

[JerseyMo]

I've seen broken click spring but never a weak one.  If I were working on this one my approach would be to compare to a known good. 

Seems you will just have to buy more viontage Timex.      

But be warned that I started with one 1964 Marlin and soon I had over 1000 vintage Timex watches.

Here is one of my latest restores -  1982 Red Dot Diver

Edited December 27, 2019 by JerseyMo

[MyFavoriteObsession]

That's a beauty! By any chance, could you please give me an idea of the correct way to reinstall a ratchet wheel washer? I have the wheel on and the washer is aligned but I'm not sure how it should be reinstalled. 

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Cancel that last question please, I figured it out. To reinstall the ratchet wheel washer, I aligned the central holes, depressed the washer with bamboo skewers, then rotated the washer one-quarter turn. I managed to get everything reinstalled and, lo and behold, the click functions! I suppose something was not aligned properly before and it had been moving the click out of its intended functionality.  I've ordered some Mobius and a fine oil applicator and we'll see if it runs well when they've arrived. 

 

Thank you all very much for the advice on this one. I really appreciate the advice. 

[JerseyMo]

I use a pair of tweezers but the bamboo sounds interesting. Here are a few more just to let you see where this can go.

Edited December 27, 2019 by JerseyMo

[MyFavoriteObsession]

Very nice, I especially like the last one in the second photo with the dial that resembles tiger's eye. The most interesting Timex I've had recently was this one from 1986.