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Doreen

Helvetia Pilot watch caliber 51-10

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30 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

To stay on the safe side, I try to put together an assortment. Regards joe

Very much appreciated. If you happen to know  from were I can order (or perhaps you have some washers weights for the balance as well) please let me know. It seams to me that this balance wheel will need some extra weights too since the hairspring got broken and now is shorter a little bit. For know is running pretty well with the rodico on the balance. Of course this is not a permanent solution.

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I managed to find those timing washers online and I’m wondering base on my balance screws thread measurements (thread  diameter 0.30mm; 0.32mm) if those are going to be a good fit in my case? Or perhaps I need something else?

https://timesavers.com/i-24049183-timing-washer-144-piece-assortmnet.html

Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

 

 

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Hi Doreen,

Sorry for late reply. Here is the website of Andy http://www.timeworldservices.co.uk/ I have a bought a few watches of him and he has serviced and repaired a few of my most delicate watches. Service level is top notch and cost is reasonable.

I am not familiar with the movement designations you refer to but the movement layout is rather specific so it is easily identified from pictures with form of bridges and the unique anti shock spring. My watch is a German Flieger from 1935-1938.  I Have also found  DH watches with the same movement and civil watches similar to the DH. Of course there might be differences that I was unaware of. I am sure Andy can sort all this for you with his knowledge.

I enclose a picture of my watch for reference and I hope this helps you.

Regards

Helvetia.jpg

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2 hours ago, Kvisten said:

Hi Doreen,

Sorry for late reply. Here is the website of Andy http://www.timeworldservices.co.uk/ I have a bought a few watches of him and he has serviced and repaired a few of my most delicate watches. Service level is top notch and cost is reasonable.

I am not familiar with the movement designations you refer to but the movement layout is rather specific so it is easily identified from pictures with form of bridges and the unique anti shock spring. My watch is a German Flieger from 1935-1938.  I Have also found  DH watches with the same movement and civil watches similar to the DH. Of course there might be differences that I was unaware of. I am sure Andy can sort all this for you with his knowledge.

I enclose a picture of my watch for reference and I hope this helps you.

Regards

Helvetia.jpg

Thank you for getting back with me. I will definitely contact him for this matter.

Beautiful watch you have there, it’s a early flieger; I really like it.

Mine is very similar with yours; it’s a flieger German watch from WW2 1941-42image.thumb.jpg.835e2b069333a99de5b90717516f2dbb.jpg 

Edited by Doreen

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23 hours ago, Doreen said:

Thank you for getting back with me. I will definitely contact him for this matter.

Beautiful watch you have there, it’s a early flieger; I really like it.

Mine is very similar with yours; it’s a flieger German watch from WW2 1941-42image.thumb.jpg.835e2b069333a99de5b90717516f2dbb.jpg 

It is a brilliant watch you have there. I hope you get is sorted. I fell in love with the propeller dial the first time I saw one :)

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I’ve purchased some timing washers and a posing tool since I have to add weight to the balance and I need to put the balance in poise too.

I've been looking to purchase a used poising tool and I come down to Levin and Bergeon

Since Bergeon tools are pretty expensive for my budget I end it up purchasing the Levin poising tool with the bubble leveler incorporate.

I know the jewels have to be perfect with no chips and the tool has to be perfect level to the working table. My dilemma is; I believe the two jewels jaws are not quite parallel to each other. One end is slightly more open (the jaws are more open then in the opposite end). I don’t know if this problem will affect negative the exact working purposes (poise)of this tool or not? On my unprofessionally opinion I believe it will. I also ordered  a few small leveler bubble since I didn’t have anything that small on hands, just to see if the two jewels are perfect leveler between  each other...I’m still waiting for them to arrive so I can check on that.m too.

I don’t believe the two jewels jaws can be adjusted between them in case they are not perfect level? Any suggestions about this?

 

 

B18B3FA3-BDD2-4173-A2C0-CA74B88F865A.jpeg

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Those Levin poising tools are among the best ever made, I would be surprised if the jaws were misaligned- though in 60 years of handling who knows. If they are good in the vertical plane then a slight misalignment face to face really doesn't matter. Use the two moveable feet to get the integral bubble level on, and you want to swipe the jaw edges with clean pithwood before use. I usually have the jaws slightly closed so that the pivots almost rest on their conical portion, then open up a bit once the balance is in place. If the balance has a serious poise issue it will roll toward the heavy spot- you want to stop it every quarter turn or so and see if it rests (it will just keep spinning from momentum often if you don't intervene). Once it's close, manually move it in 90 degree increments and see that it stays put. Once it does you're poised.

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On 12/31/2019 at 8:01 PM, Doreen said:

I will try to see if I manage to find the right screw for this balance. 

Happy New Year 2020 to all of you.

 

Hi @Doreen , Small assortment I believe six so far, of balance screws is ready. Drop me your address please.   Regards joe

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53 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Those Levin poising tools are among the best ever made, I would be surprised if the jaws were misaligned- though in 60 years of handling who knows. If they are good in the vertical plane then a slight misalignment face to face really doesn't matter. Use the two moveable feet to get the integral bubble level on, and you want to swipe the jaw edges with clean pithwood before use. I usually have the jaws slightly closed so that the pivots almost rest on their conical portion, then open up a bit once the balance is in place. If the balance has a serious poise issue it will roll toward the heavy spot- you want to stop it every quarter turn or so and see if it rests (it will just keep spinning from momentum often if you don't intervene). Once it's close, manually move it in 90 degree increments and see that it stays put. Once it does you're poised.

Many thanks for your advice.

Right now, without being able to check to see if the two jewels are perfect lever between them... my balance wheel after I added a few weights washers and going back and forward many times it seams to stop on different spots now every time. Before that it stopped on the same heavy spot every time. I’m wondering if stops on different spots, is that means the balance is poised now? Also It will take a long time for the balance to stop. If I let it go it will spin down from the poising tool. I will definitely try out your suggestions with the 90 degree increments this afternoon as well.

I tried to used a different balance wheel just to compare them and the second one it was bouncing back and forth fort a few time and then it will stop on the same heavy spot side without spinning  to much. This one is definitely out of poise.

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37 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi @Doreen , Small assortment I believe six so far, of balance screws is ready. Drop me your address please.   Regards joe

Thank you very much for all your efforts on finding the screws for me. I did managed to find some screws for my balance; from a old Longines movement. I had to add more weight to it but I managed to solve that problem.

Anyway if you really don’t need the screws I will be happy to have them. Please let me know how much do I owe you for that? Many thanks again 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Doreen said:

Many thanks for your advice.

Right now, without being able to check to see if the two jewels are perfect lever between them... my balance wheel after I added a few weights washers and going back and forward many times it seams to stop on different spots now every time. Before that it stopped on the same heavy spot every time. I’m wondering if stops on different spots, is that means the balance is poised now? Also It will take a long time for the balance to stop. If I let it go it will spin down from the poising tool. I will definitely try out your suggestions with the 90 degree increments this afternoon as well.

I tried to used a different balance wheel just to compare them and the second one it was bouncing back and forth fort a few time and then it will stop on the same heavy spot side without spinning  to much. This one is definitely out of poise.

If everything is clean and level you should be able to stop the balance anywhere you want, at the same time, if you set it in motion it will go and go and go. If it stops abruptly it's a sign you're not clean.

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1 hour ago, Doreen said:

Thank you very much for all your efforts on finding the screws for me. I did managed to find some screws for my balance; from a old Longines movement. I had to add more weight to it but I managed to solve that problem.

Anyway if you really don’t need the screws I will be happy to have them. Please let me know how much do I owe you for that? Many thanks again 

 

 

We got this semi official little arrangement on the forum, to pass on spare parts, from which I have already benefited. If you like to join, you may find spare parts in your bag of tricks that other members are looking for.

This pass it on program, in its true spirit, is helpful and a chance for friends to share. 

 Best wishes.  Joe.

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11 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

We got this semi official little arrangement on the forum, to pass on spare parts, from which I have already benefited. If you like to join, you may find spare parts in your bag of tricks that other members are looking for.

This pass it on program, in its true spirit, is helpful and a chance for friends to share. 

 Best wishes.  Joe.

This is a great idea. I will definitely like to participate on this too.

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48 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

PM me your address please. 

 

Joe

Im really  grateful that you are offering to help me out with the screws, however I’m not filling confortable to post my personal address online. 
As I mentioned before I have already found some screws that are a good match for my balance. Please save those parts maybe to help somebody else. I really appreciate your help and advice. Many thanks and I hope you are not going to be offended in anyway.

kind regards 

Doreen

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6 hours ago, Doreen said:

Joe

Im really  grateful that you are offering to help me out with the screws, however I’m not filling confortable to post my personal address online. 
As I mentioned before I have already found some screws that are a good match for my balance. Please save those parts maybe to help somebody else. I really appreciate your help and advice. Many thanks and I hope you are not going to be offended in anyway.

kind regards 

Doreen

No offence taken.    Best wishes

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23 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Those Levin poising tools are among the best ever made, I would be surprised if the jaws were misaligned- though in 60 years of handling who knows. If they are good in the vertical plane then a slight misalignment face to face really doesn't matter. Use the two moveable feet to get the integral bubble level on, and you want to swipe the jaw edges with clean pithwood before use. I usually have the jaws slightly closed so that the pivots almost rest on their conical portion, then open up a bit once the balance is in place. If the balance has a serious poise issue it will roll toward the heavy spot- you want to stop it every quarter turn or so and see if it rests (it will just keep spinning from momentum often if you don't intervene). Once it's close, manually move it in 90 degree increments and see that it stays put. Once it does you're poised.

I tried the balance wheel again on the poising tool by manually move it in 90 degree increments, as you advise me, and it stays  still once I stop it from moving.  It will rest on that specific spot. If I gently give it a push again it will run and run and run. It seams that I manage to poise the balance?

I also noticed one of the pivots is not quite perfect; it has a very small tiny groove on the end. That probably will affect the quality of the poise too, I asume. 
What I don’t understand is after I perfectly adjust the poise tool so it will be perfect level on the working table the balance wheel seems to always runs towards the same end every time until it’s fall down. If I pushed it on the opposite direction, it would run quite a long distance but then it will very, very, slowly stop. Any suggestions?

Edited by Doreen

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Even the slightest out of level condition will influence the balance; but "pretty level" is fine. The level built in to the tool was accurate when it was made, but things could have shifted over time. If you want it really on, find the position where it behaves as level and mark a point on the level vial with a black marker so you know where the bubble should be.

 

It does sound like you've poised it- good job!

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36 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Even the slightest out of level condition will influence the balance; but "pretty level" is fine. The level built in to the tool was accurate when it was made, but things could have shifted over time. If you want it really on, find the position where it behaves as level and mark a point on the level vial with a black marker so you know where the bubble should be.

 

It does sound like you've poised it- good job!

Thank you very much for all your good advices and help.

Im so happy, It seems that I finally managed to poise my first balance wheel. That will call for a toast tonight. I never thought  I will be able to go so far with this (on the watch repair field) especially that my hands are not quite steady. My biggest problem is when it comes to adjust the hairspring coils. You really need to have very steady hands otherwise everything can be ruined in a blink of an eye. 

As for the Levin tool level bubble; I’m still waiting for the high precision level bubbles that I order to arrive. Than I will check the original bubble leveler from the tool against the new one and see if I will have any differences between them. If I found any difference between them I will probably replace the original one with the new one or maybe I will attach the new one one to the tool against the old one. Will see...

 

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