Tudor 2447 Timegrapher Results

[jdm]

I suspect that a different instrument will show the same as the current one.

I would follow the suggestions given above for fault finding.

[mzinski]

10 hours ago, jdm said:

I suspect that a different instrument will show the same as the current one.

I would follow the suggestions given above for fault finding.

So I've re-cleaned it again, including the mainspring - the train moves freely, some end shake but not excessive, nothing is tight or confined, and some recoil when tested. Every piece was individually demagnetized. However, the watch still runs fast - 30 min in a day. 

I replaced the balance spring with an 18,000bpm because I am making an assumption the Tudor 2447 is also a 18,000bpm movement. However, I have not found any documentation to suggest it actually is. Documentation is incredibly rare and hard to find for a new, hobbyist like myself. If I put in the wrong balance spring and this movement is actually a 19,800 or 21,600 (or even 16,200) what would the implication be? Would it be timing fast? 

Here is the balance in action: 

 

 

[nickelsilver]

From the 4th and escape wheel we can see that this is an 18,000 BPH watch. What do you mean when you say you changed the balance spring? Just the spring? They are not interchangeable, they are matched to a given balance. If you are running 30 mins/day fast there is something very wrong, that would be difficult to correct even with the biggest timing washers installed on every balance screw.

[mzinski]

29 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

From the 4th and escape wheel we can see that this is an 18,000 BPH watch. What do you mean when you say you changed the balance spring? Just the spring? They are not interchangeable, they are matched to a given balance. If you are running 30 mins/day fast there is something very wrong, that would be difficult to correct even with the biggest timing washers installed on every balance screw.

Oh dear! On the bright side it’s always good to be learning. 
So, I only changed the spring, not the wheel. The existing spring was very bent/kinked. (I bought the movement in not working condition FWIW) 

Edited December 16, 2019 by mzinski

[JohnR725]

27 minutes ago, mzinski said:

I replaced the balance spring with an 18,000bpm

I can see somebody beat me to the answer as nickelsilver As commented hairsprings are not usually considered interchangeable components with the exception of American pocket watches where you had an infinite supply of timing screws to go with them. Each hairspring is vibrated to a specific Balance wheel.

So looking at my list of lift angles for various watches it indicates that the Tudor 2447  Is 18,000 beats per hour  lift angle at 51°

[mzinski]

8 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I can see somebody beat me to the answer as nickelsilver As commented hairsprings are not usually considered interchangeable components with the exception of American pocket watches where you had an infinite supply of timing screws to go with them. Each hairspring is vibrated to a specific Balance wheel.

So looking at my list of lift angles for various watches it indicates that the Tudor 2447  Is 18,000 beats per hour  lift angle at 51°

Thanks! I did discover the 51 lift angle too. 
 

Any recommendations on the spring and/or balance complete? I haven’t been able to buy a new one as none of the big suppliers (Ofrei, Jules Borel, etc) seem you carry it. 
I could really use some advice on how I can rectify. 

[mzinski]

PS. I should also give a little context to my crazy, uneducated decision to swap out the spring. 

I bought the movement not working, "for repairs". The balance spring was kinked and I could not re-bend into a good position. I've purchased a few ETA 2369 movements in an attempt to simply swap in a new balance wheel complete. Problem is, most of the 2369 stock I've found is for INCABLOC shocks systems, not the KIF installed in the Tudor. I seem to recall measuring the height of the balance stem and finding them to be different - but I'd need to remeasure to make sure I'm not crossing wires with another movement. When I swap these in, the balance stem doesn't seem to align correctly. Do I know for certain this is why things didn't align? No - it is only my suspicion. 

I'm not set up to swap out balance stems - I still need more practice and a jeweling/staking tool. My previous attempts have been catastrophic and I don't want to mess up this Tudor balance wheel and balance staff. 

Since the collar is the easy to remove/adjust style, I figured I'd follow the WRT tutorial on changing balance springs. Viola! With some patience and diligence in aligning for beat error, changing it out was no problem. Well, no problem until I've learned the spring and balance need to be married to one another. 

[rodabod]

If you haven't got much to lose with the existing balance, then I might see how much you can bring the rate down with the two mean-time balance screws. Draw them out an equal number of turns and see what you can do with the rate. Note that they affect poise and must be done equally. They are the two screws with longer threads which are not fully screwed down.

Sometimes KIF and Inca staffs are interchangeable and sometimes not. You'll know soon enough if you try another balance and it has too little or too much endshake.

Judging by the chamfering on the pallet fork, I'd suggest this was possibly also one of Tudor's modifications.

[mzinski]

On 12/16/2019 at 7:45 PM, rodabod said:

If you haven't got much to lose with the existing balance, then I might see how much you can bring the rate down with the two mean-time balance screws. Draw them out an equal number of turns and see what you can do with the rate. Note that they affect poise and must be done equally. They are the two screws with longer threads which are not fully screwed down.

Sometimes KIF and Inca staffs are interchangeable and sometimes not. You'll know soon enough if you try another balance and it has too little or too much endshake.

Judging by the chamfering on the pallet fork, I'd suggest this was possibly also one of Tudor's modifications.

Gave this a shot but with no luck. 

However, I found another Tudor 2447 for sale for parts with a good, intact balance. I've since purchased, cleaned, and installed into my movement. This has eliminated the strange "X" reading on the timegrapher app. The tracing appears as a normal, continuous line albeit with a beat error of 0.6. Next step is to eliminate as much of the beat error as I can and regulate. 

[Klassiker]

Thanks for the update and good luck!