Movement Identification

[AdamC]

Hello,

I'm working on a vintage pin set movement. I was really hoping to service the working movement and obtain the missing winding stem but cannot find any symbols or caliber number clues on the movement plates or bridges. Yes, there are numbers but these look like serial numbers. I have added some photos if anybody can help. Having looked at this site, I found my nearest clue from the photo id of this Helvetia General Borgel movement but of course still no exact caliber id. My movement measures 25.35mm (approx 11.25''').

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Otto]

I have found this site to be helpful on occasion to identify ,vintagewatchstraps.com , hopefully it will help 

Otto 

[Otto]

I just noticed you have already looked there , sorry 

[AndyHull]

Not one I recognize.
You could try the "Advanced" search button on the  Ranfft website. -> http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk
 

[AdamC]

42 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Not one I recognize.
You could try the "Advanced" search button on the  Ranfft website. -> http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk
 

Thanks Andy. Already tried that route to no avail.

[WatchMaker]

Your case with the George Stockwell mark along with what looks like an 'h' date mark for 1923 led me to this: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-silver-watch-1923-case-signed-251013340

Is this the same as your movement? In which case we now have an extra clue in that it is attributed to RWC (Rolex Watch Company). This may open a new avenue for investigation...?

 

[AdamC]

2 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Your case with the George Stockwell mark along with what looks like an 'h' date mark for 1923...

Is this the same as your movement? In which case we now have an extra clue in that it is attributed to RWC (Rolex Watch Company). This may open a new avenue for investigation...?

 

Thanks for your thoughts WatchMaker. The hallmark is actually a 'b' date mark for 1917 (London). However, from what I can see of the movement, it certainly looks very similar. Alas, no RWC silver mark on my case . More digging to be done...

To be fair, if I could just find a compatible stem to fit it, I would be more than happy.

[WatchMaker]

I had tried zooming in but the image quality still made it look like an 'h' to me! I guess that was fortunate though as it allowed us to find your movement on a 1923 dated watch. If yours is a 1917 then this movement must be common enough if it had (at least) that production life.

So a quick search on ranfft for movements that might look similar in this year range gets me to a 1920 watch: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?13&ranfft&0&2ustu&1446048034& . Too big to be yours ... but that distinctive bridge shape! And we have a maker: Election. A quick look at a smaller Election movements gets: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-election-silver-trench-watch-160954435

Now this could be a big red herring - we can't reliably identify a movement from a particular bridge shape and the movement isn't exactly the same as yours but the similarities are notable; it looks like it might be a good point in the right direction at least! 

[AdamC]

10 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

If yours is a 1917 then this movement must be common enough if it had (at least) that production life.

So a quick search on ranfft for movements that might look similar in this year range gets me to a 1920 watch: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?13&ranfft&0&2ustu&1446048034& . Too big to be yours ... but that distinctive bridge shape! And we have a maker: Election. A quick look at a smaller Election movements gets: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-election-silver-trench-watch-160954435

Now this could be a big red herring - we can't reliably identify a movement from a particular bridge shape and the movement isn't exactly the same as yours but the similarities are notable; it looks like it might be a good point in the right direction at least! 

WatchMaker, thanks for your interest and efforts. I agree this is the closest looking movement yet. Almost like this Election 62 even with its stripes on the plates though no subsecond and mine is a pin set. There's not a lot of info about Election watches online though have seen a couple of the same style and era and one identified as Election 12'''. Now we're this near, it would be a pity not to find its exact caliber. Thanks again

[rogart63]

Finding a movement from early 1900 is not the easiest . And even if you do there is little chance in finding a stem . Best is to make one . Find a stem that is close and modify it to fit.  Think maybe it could be an early AS or FHF  movement. 

[AdamC]

9 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

Finding a movement from early 1900 is not the easiest . And even if you do there is little chance in finding a stem . Best is to make one . Find a stem that is close and modify it to fit.  Think maybe it could be an early AS or FHF  movement. 

Thanks for the advice rogart63. Unfortunately I don't have lathe skills yet, though something I'm interested in learning at some point.

[StuartBaker104]

Hi Adam,

Do you have any of the old stem? If not, can you estimate dimensions A and E as per the diagram in the top right of “windingstems.com”? This is a great place to start to see if anyone has a stem you can fettle to fit.

S

[AdamC]

7 minutes ago, StuartBaker104 said:

Hi Adam,

Do you have any of the old stem? If not, can you estimate dimensions A and E as per the diagram in the top right of “windingstems.com”? This is a great place to start to see if anyone has a stem you can fettle to fit.

S

That's a very good tip Stuart. I'l look into doing that.

Thanks,
Adam