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Peerless 8mm lathe primer info?

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Hi all, first post and I have to admit to feeling a bit sheepish about being here.  I'm not a watchmaker, and aside from a couple vintage inherited wristwatches (a mid century Rolex and a 70-80's vintage Omega) I'm really not even a watch afficianado (I know, gasp!).  I'm a Jeweler and am in the process of setting up an old Marshall/Peerless 8mm lathe for jewelry and general use.  I've had the thing for years and never bothered with it, but since getting rid of my larger lathes was a necessity when I combined households with my fiance, I figured it was time.  I'm really excited about getting the lathe up and running, and I've scrounged enough tooling and accessories to get a good start. What I don't have is a good knowledge base of the care and feeding of the machine itself! I've done a "little" (pun intended) work on larger lathes, Mostly bushings and fittings for bikes and vintage cars; but I'm hardly a master machinist. Can anyone start me off with a few general tips and tricks and maybe help me avoid a few "shouldn't have done that" moments?

Specific questions:

What oil for the headstock bearings?

Operating speeds (I'm using a vintage dental motor that goes to 10K rpm... I need to know where to limit it at)

Belt tension?

Most useful tools for general use (remember, I'm not a watchmaker.... my first project is going to be truing wheels on a pinewood derby car, and after that it will be mostly manufacturing my own jewelry findings)

Places to shop for tooling and parts (other than ebay)

The lathe is barely used, but some time in the past it got knocked around and theres a big chip in one of the pulleys on the headstock....  Does anybody know what the plastic/rubber compound is and/or is there a good way to repair/recast the broken part?

Recommended books or operation manuals?

 

Many thanks!  Have a good weekend everyone

Scott

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I have a lot of lathe videos on my YouTube channel (search for JD Richard or jdrichard01)That’s a good start. One specific video is on Watchmakers books where I also talk about lathe books.

0w20 synthetic for oil.




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Thanks JD... And that's a lot of lathes! I guess it's not as bad as the heavy metal crowd that end up with sheds and garages full of full size shop lathes....

Tell me about the jackshafts that you're running on some lathes? Is that just to get a wider rpm range at the lathe head? 

Thanks again

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Thanks JD... And that's a lot of lathes! I guess it's not as bad as the heavy metal crowd that end up with sheds and garages full of full size shop lathes....
Tell me about the jackshafts that you're running on some lathes? Is that just to get a wider rpm range at the lathe head? 
Thanks again

These are vintage Countershafts and they provide Motor to Big Wheel to small wheel to Lathe TORQUE


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32 minutes ago, vinn3 said:

welcome to the forum.    be sure to wear "saftey glasses"  when using a lathe.  vin

Ha! Thanks for the tip vin. I Didn't mention that my real job is occupational safety.

JD, thanks for the info on the jackshafts. I don't think torque will be a problem with my motor. I def have enough to slip the belt under most circumstances. 

Have a good weekend all!span widget

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I'm sure there is lots a jeweler can contribute here, fairly new to watchmaking myself but I have a good amount of machining experience.

Oil - any light clean mineral oil.  Hydraulic oil, say ISO 10 isn't a bad choice.  Hydraulic oil is essentially very pure mineral oil without additives - great for machine tool use.  i use ISO 32 in most of my larger machines.  Many use clock oil as well, which, afaik, is just a light mineral oil.  The bearing clearance is adjustable, get it so it doesn't run hot with the viscosity of oil you've chosen

Do take it apart inspect and clean.

Do oil at every use.  take the belt of and rotate by hand to ensure a good coating of oil over the bearing before powering up

Speed.  Definitely limit, best with a pulley ratio.  I don't think I'd want to spin those plain bearings lathes anymore than 2000, or less.  As a practical matter, you don't need it to go that fast...you do want a foot controlled variable speed.  You to some extent control the removal rate with speed

Tension.  It doesn't take much, and you don't want too much because its a plain bearing.  The belt in large part grips because its the right size to wedge itself in the V - if its bottoming out it will slip.  My preference is to make poly urethane belts; it provides a fairly high coefficient of friction with the pulleys. 

Pulley divot:  Don't worry about it, it won't affect performance (post a pic, I'm guessing its not half the pulley).  Its probably bakelite and these can be repaired by grinding up/sanding into dust some of the parent material, using that to colour some epoxy, and apply.  Its a pita and not worth it for this, imo.

Edited by measuretwice

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31 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Mr Tassconi (watchmaker and school videos) called me once to answer the lathe oil question and he recommended 0w20 synth.


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why would he suggest a multigrade for a lathe?

 

 

Edited by measuretwice

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8 hours ago, measuretwice said:

 

....Pulley divot:  Don't worry about it, it won't affect performance (post a pic, I'm guessing its not half the pulley).  Its probably bakelite and these can be repaired by grinding up/sanding into dust some of the parent material, using that to colour some epoxy, and apply.  Its a pita and not worth it for this, imo....

Thanks for the help. I actually had the headstock apart today and it's in very good shape. No visible wear, for that matter, no visible wear on the headstock pulley either. The lathe has patina for sure, but from a wear standpoint doesn't appear to have seen much use. I'll be surprised if it's Bakelite. It's hard, but feels like it deforms a little under my thumbnail when I press hard. You're right that it won't make a difference though. With the motor I'm using I probably won't ever need to use that notch! It just bothers me. I don't mind the putting on the chrome or other patina, but functional defects get under my skin.

Here's the chip. I'll take better pictures once it's properly set up.

Thanks again

IMG_20191116_184010422.jpg

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And thanks for all the links and videos JD. Still working on going through them. I'm more of a reader than a YouTuber these days, but I can usually find time during my lunch breaks for a video or two...

By the way, I was surprised that with the stable of little machines in that picture you posted, none are sporting a compound slide. Any reason?

Thanks!

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And thanks for all the links and videos JD. Still working on going through them. I'm more of a reader than a YouTuber these days, but I can usually find time during my lunch breaks for a video or two...
By the way, I was surprised that with the stable of little machines in that picture you posted, none are sporting a compound slide. Any reason?
Thanks!

I have a very good compound slide but rarely use it. Most of my work is by hand.


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Thanks for the help. I actually had the headstock apart today and it's in very good shape. No visible wear, for that matter, no visible wear on the headstock pulley either. The lathe has patina for sure, but from a wear standpoint doesn't appear to have seen much use. I'll be surprised if it's Bakelite. It's hard, but feels like it deforms a little under my thumbnail when I press hard. You're right that it won't make a difference though. With the motor I'm using I probably won't ever need to use that notch! It just bothers me. I don't mind the putting on the chrome or other patina, but functional defects get under my skin.
Here's the chip. I'll take better pictures once it's properly set up.
Thanks again
IMG_20191116_184010422.thumb.jpg.bddf093c37785c077d14be6084f7b089.jpg

Just use JB Weld and form a piece in the gap, then file it to shape. I have done this and it worked well.


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11 hours ago, jdrichard said:


Not sure but a synth does not break down under heat. Seems reasonable, and it does work well.


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It seems an odd choice, but it may not do harm. 

imo there is no reason to use a multiweight oil,  but maybe there are good reasons I missed.  I also don't see a reason to use a synthetic oil, won't hurt, but they are more money.  Regular oils don't break down until 270F - there's some serious issues if that's a factor with a lathe :) It seems a topic full of hyperbole and little expertise; there's one horology oil report claiming synthetic oils don't contain hydrocarbons!   What nonsense.. 

Multiweight oil are designed for internal combustion engines where there's a big temperature swing.  The low initial viscosity helps get oil pressure built up quickly and makes cold cranking easier.  But the engine quickly gets up 220F or so and the oil operates at its high viscosity (oil viscosity is determined at a set temp, i.e. an oil of X viscosity means its X at 40C, it will have a very different viscosity at 110C). 

Your lathe just doesn't go through the same temp swings, say -40 to +220 n the dead of winter so I don't see how a multigrade makes any sense....except maybe because is readily available?

In general with machines, motor oil is really frowned on because of the additives and detergents.  They're are needed do deal with combustion, but not wanted in a gearbox/bearing bath.  Watchmakers lathes are a total loss system so these objections I don't think matter much, but its worth mentioning in the context of machine tools and oils.

With a 0W20 run a low temps, you're really only going to see the "0".   The zero isn't really zero, its just small, maybe the equivalent to ISO 3 or maybe 4. ( 0 Viscosity is superfluidity, liquid helium laboratory stuff). 

So what really matters?  That its a clean mineral oil (i.e. hydraulic oil) and of the right viscosity (singular)

So that's the real concern I had, Is ISO 3 or 4 enough?   I'd have guessed no, but maybe.   Most of these lathes don't come with a viscosity recommendation.  Clock oils often recommended are afaik much higher than 3-4 but (snake?) oil marketing, while full of lofty claims, rarely even states the viscosity!   .  I suppose it can be overthought, these lathes seem to easily last 100 years with whatever is put into them,.  So long as the oil is thick enough to keep the parts separate at speed, its thick enough.  Still, i think synthetic and multigrade oils in a plan bearing are, well, just not required.

 

Edited by measuretwice

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It seems an odd choice, but it may not do harm. 
imo there is no reason to use a multiweight oil,  but maybe there are good reasons I missed.  I also don't see a reason to use a synthetic oil, won't hurt, but they are more money.  Regular oils don't break down until 270F - there's some serious issues if that's a factor with a lathe .  It seems a topic full of hyperbole and little expertise; there's one horology oil report claiming synthetic oils don't contain hydrocarbons!   What nonsense.. 
Multiweight oil are designed for internal combustion engines where there's a big temperature swing.  The low initial viscosity helps get oil pressure built up quickly and makes cold cranking easier.  But the engine quickly gets up 220F or so and the oil operates at its high viscosity (oil viscosity is determined at a set temp, i.e. an oil of X viscosity means its X at 40C, it will have a very different viscosity at 110C). 
Your lathe just doesn't go through the same temp swings, say -40 to +220 n the dead of winter so I don't see how a multigrade makes any sense....except maybe because is readily available?
In general with machines, motor oil is really frowned on because of the additives and detergents.  They're are needed do deal with combustion, but not wanted in a gearbox/bearing bath.  Watchmakers lathes are a total loss system so these objections I don't think matter much, but its worth mentioning in the context of machine tools and oils.
With a 0W20 run a low temps, you're really only going to see the "0".   The zero isn't really zero, its just small, maybe the equivalent to ISO 3 or maybe 4. ( 0 Viscosity is superfluidity, liquid helium laboratory stuff). 
So what really matters?  That its a clean mineral oil (i.e. hydraulic oil) and of the right viscosity (singular)
So that's the real concern I had, Is ISO 3 or 4 enough?   I'd have guessed no, but maybe.   Most of these lathes don't come with a viscosity recommendation.  Clock oils often recommended are afaik much higher than 3-4 but (snake?) oil marketing, while full of lofty claims, rarely even states the viscosity!   .  I suppose it can be overthought, these lathes seem to easily last 100 years with whatever is put into them,.  So long as the oil is thick enough to keep the parts separate at speed, its thick enough.  Still, i think synthetic and multigrade oils in a plan bearing are, well, just not required.
 

Quote from Bob Tascione
“I use Mobile 1 synthetic 5-30 on all my watchmakers lathe as well as on my Hardinge 7 inch bench lathe. Works well for me and easy to find.”


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I understand someone recommended it, it just strikes me as an odd recommendation so I was curious as to the rational.   There is no reason (I'm aware of) to use multigrade or synthetic oil in a plain bearing, or for that matter any lathe...but if there was I'd like know.   Wasn't the recommendation 0W20 at first, its big difference to between 0 and 5....like 3 to 20  ISO.

A view with a tool is often that success is measured by whether it gets the job done.  Thats fair, but doesn't hold up with machine lubrication....i.e. making a part isn't the metric of success, its whether 20 years from now its still in great shape making parts....something that is harder to assess. 

these bearings seem quite resilient, so it may be a bit academic....cleanliness and diligent oiling probably matters more

 

 

 

 

Edited by measuretwice

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I understand someone recommended it, it just strikes me as an odd recommendation so I was curious as to the rational.   There is no reason (I'm aware of) to use multigrade or synthetic oil in a plain bearing, or for that matter any lathe...but if there was I'd like know.   Wasn't the recommendation 0W20 at first, its big difference to between 0 and 5....like 3 to 20  ISO.
A view with a tool is often that success is measured by whether it gets the job done.  Thats fair, but doesn't hold up with machine lubrication....i.e. making a part isn't the metric of success, its whether 20 years from now its still in great shape making parts....something that is harder to assess. 
these bearings seem quite resilient, so it may be a bit academic....cleanliness and diligent oiling probably matters more
 
 
 
 

I have no comment on the use on Synth or not. I have also heard that sewing machine oil may also work....however Bob Tasceione is no armature and is a master watch and clock maker; so following his advice made sense to me, an amateur.


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9 minutes ago, jdrichard said:


I have no comment on the use on Synth or not. I have also heard that sewing machine oil may also work....however Bob Tasceione is no armature and is a master watch and clock maker; so following his advice made sense to me, an amateur.

 

 

No disrespect meant to him or anyone else....no doubt he's forgotten more than I know about watches and clocks, but I'm leery of 'expertise creep'....i.e. horology expertise doesn't mean (necessarily) tribology expertise.  otoh I fully prepared to be wrong, maybe there is a great reason for the recommendation

Edited by measuretwice

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No disrespect meant to him or anyone else....no doubt he's forgotten more than I know about watches and clocks, but I'm leery of 'expertise creep'....i.e. horology expertise doesn't mean (necessarily) tribology expertise.  otoh I fully prepared to be wrong, maybe there is a great reason

I will ask him.


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No disrespect meant to him or anyone else....no doubt he's forgotten more than I know about watches and clocks, but I'm leery of 'expertise creep'....i.e. horology expertise doesn't mean (necessarily) tribology expertise.  otoh I fully prepared to be wrong, maybe there is a great reason for the recommendation

My wife said use “frankincense” :)


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My lathe does get warm sometimes over extended use, and possibly when I’m working quite hard on it. If it feels warm on the casing where the cone bearings are housed, then I guess it’s possible that it could be considerably hotter atvtge bearing surface. Just a thought. And yes, I oil my lathes regularly. 

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