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A Setback

jdrichard

By jdrichard
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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I was reassembling the hairspring and the balance cock on PW I was working on and I noticed that the balance popped off the staff. Ahhhhh!

 

I made the staff of course but obviously did not stake it on well enough. I friction fit it but will now have to see if there is enough material left to form a rivet.

 

Ahhhhhh. :)f9847841e5196e5d93339a9f3c71ffd5.jpgbd2626cdd2dd0b03bf1392191450e1fe.jpgb283c6dec41b21e0a82d02c1fe6c8e52.jpg67ec570e5ca950566b28a10bd7119730.jpg

 

 

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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Now that is annoying.

I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.

So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.

 

I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Now that is annoying.
I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.
So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.
 
I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

And it was so good!!! If I don’t have enough material to rivet it on, I could use a dab of JB Weld, carefully applied using my new Stereo Microscope. Here is a picture of the eye of a lady bug, just to show you how close it gets.e06122f80b0b4026d95c9611f52e5e20.jpg


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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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I was reassembling the hairspring and the balance cock on PW I was working on and I noticed that the balance popped off the staff. Ahhhhh!
 
I made the staff of course but obviously did not stake it on well enough. I friction fit it but will now have to see if there is enough material left to form a rivet.
 
Ahhhhhh. smile.pngf9847841e5196e5d93339a9f3c71ffd5.jpg&key=a962ecd4458ec3f4b6b5cbefea2ae6b98b89172aa4a724ee04a28608ec078ea1bd2626cdd2dd0b03bf1392191450e1fe.jpg&key=2e22b9b34c25269bb99eeff7ca6b19786bc67c5bb32d38c12fadf7879b73c91fb283c6dec41b21e0a82d02c1fe6c8e52.jpg&key=97604fe4e36903042509b81c448860155694601947f15c7cea55e0669220a48867ec570e5ca950566b28a10bd7119730.jpg&key=f37f2d1d94185ac99e4eadba08ed16122dbfb46dc94af9079a0f4776fd77a74b
 
 
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R.I.P.


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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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I would go against the JB weld idea, might get you out of trouble but would make it impossible to replace the staff again in the future.

Unfortunately starting to sound like its time to start again.

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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3 hours ago, Tmuir said:

I would go against the JB weld idea, might get you out of trouble but would make it impossible to replace the staff again in the future.

Absolutely agree. What about give the balance hole a gentle massage with the stacking set, that may have you regain the friction need. No need for an able machinis lower himself using chemical shortcuts.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Absolutely agree. What about give the balance hole a gentle massage with the stacking set, that may have you regain the friction need. No need for an able machinis lower himself using chemical shortcuts.

Agree. Will re-stake with staking set. The JB Weld “chemical” solution will also add weight to the balance: may be indiscernible.


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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Another Setback. I thought I would try securing the balance by restating it, but I left the roller table on and thought it would hold up to the pounding. I thought wrong. The roller table is made of brass and simply crushed. Ahhhhhh, should have taken it off prior to re-riveting the balance. Now I need another roller table or simply call this a scrap movement. Good news is I got it for free. “Should have simply JB Welded the balance back on” and I know, not normally acceptable.3117afeb28b95e3d44d2de241091560d.jpg


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vinn3 Distinguished Member

vinn3

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On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 7:48 AM, Tmuir said:

Now that is annoying.

I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.

So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.

 

I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

     i would have cheeted.  epoxy this one ; do it right nex time.    vin

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nickelsilver Distinguished Member

nickelsilver

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8 minutes ago, jdm said:

Is it difficult to make a roller table?

Yes, it's pretty difficult to do it right. The radius position of the roller jewel is really critical as well as the safety roller diameter and its notch to pass the dart; should also make a shaped broach to make the hole for the roller jewel though a round hole can still work. It's easier of you have a measuring microscope and jig boring machine... If one had another to copy it would be much easier and probably doable without fancy machines to a decently functional level by someone skilled at fiddly work.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Yes, it's pretty difficult to do it right. The radius position of the roller jewel is really critical as well as the safety roller diameter and its notch to pass the dart; should also make a shaped broach to make the hole for the roller jewel though a round hole can still work. It's easier of you have a measuring microscope and jig boring machine... If one had another to copy it would be much easier and probably doable without fancy machines to a decently functional level by someone skilled at fiddly work.

That's it, I have a 2000 buck stereo microscope and I love a challenge. I may try to make one. Will be tough to make the jewel hole as was said.

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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Ouch, I can imagine the air might of turned blue for a few seconds after the roller broke.

Archie Perkin's book details how to make a roller, but its a big difference between reading how to do it and actually doing it, I've certainly never tried to make one before.

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vinn3 Distinguished Member

vinn3

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de Carles book cover this also.    i had a problem with a roller jewel.  the hole that it "slips into"   was too  large.  and it sliped back from the fork.  the clearence is critical !!   i think i would bail out.   (army air corps "when in doubt - bail out").  vin

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Ouch, I can imagine the air might of turned blue for a few seconds after the roller broke.
Archie Perkin's book details how to make a roller, but its a big difference between reading how to do it and actually doing it, I've certainly never tried to make one before.

Thanks for the reference. I may have that book.


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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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de Carles book cover this also.    i had a problem with a roller jewel.  the hole that it "slips into"   was too  large.  and it sliped back from the fork.  the clearence is critical !!   i think i would bail out.   (army air corps "when in doubt - bail out").  vin

When I was in the armoured corps they said “when I doubt Pit Out” aka go to sleep.


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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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shelac ; the glue used on the pallet jewels for years.  i never liked it because it can be easly desolved by most cleaning fluids.  i learned the hard way to remove those parts before cleaning.  vin

I too have learned the hard way.


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vinn3 Distinguished Member

vinn3

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13 hours ago, jdrichard said:


I too have learned the hard way.


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      we need a glue half way between shellac and epoxy.    epoxy supositly breaks down at 250 deg, F,  but it is destructive.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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      we need a glue half way between shellac and epoxy.    epoxy supositly breaks down at 250 deg, F,  but it is destructive.

JD Weld is a very good epoxy that seems to work better than your normal epoxy. I used it to glue a Pinion into a gear shaft...I had no other alternative for transplanting the Pinion. Worked like a charm.


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vinn3 Distinguished Member

vinn3

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  JD  orJB ?    epoxys'  are all same,  i looked it up,   "cyanocrylates" .   what i want is a compromise between shellac and epoxy.  i remember  "non hardening Permatex" -  no longer avialable.  somthing resintant to alcohol,  but removed with acitone.  too much to ask for ?  vin

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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  JD  orJB ?    epoxys'  are all same,  i looked it up,   "cyanocrylates" .   what i want is a compromise between shellac and epoxy.  i remember  "non hardening Permatex" -  no longer avialable.  somthing resintant to alcohol,  but removed with acitone.  too much to ask for ?  vin

JB Weld. I do find this a lot better than the old and still available two tube epoxy

 

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