Jump to content

A Setback


Recommended Posts

I was reassembling the hairspring and the balance cock on PW I was working on and I noticed that the balance popped off the staff. Ahhhhh!

 

I made the staff of course but obviously did not stake it on well enough. I friction fit it but will now have to see if there is enough material left to form a rivet.

 

Ahhhhhh. :)f9847841e5196e5d93339a9f3c71ffd5.jpgbd2626cdd2dd0b03bf1392191450e1fe.jpgb283c6dec41b21e0a82d02c1fe6c8e52.jpg67ec570e5ca950566b28a10bd7119730.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that is annoying.

I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.

So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.

 

I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that is annoying.
I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.
So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.
 
I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

And it was so good!!! If I don’t have enough material to rivet it on, I could use a dab of JB Weld, carefully applied using my new Stereo Microscope. Here is a picture of the eye of a lady bug, just to show you how close it gets.e06122f80b0b4026d95c9611f52e5e20.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I was reassembling the hairspring and the balance cock on PW I was working on and I noticed that the balance popped off the staff. Ahhhhh!
 
I made the staff of course but obviously did not stake it on well enough. I friction fit it but will now have to see if there is enough material left to form a rivet.
 
Ahhhhhh. smile.pngf9847841e5196e5d93339a9f3c71ffd5.jpg&key=a962ecd4458ec3f4b6b5cbefea2ae6b98b89172aa4a724ee04a28608ec078ea1bd2626cdd2dd0b03bf1392191450e1fe.jpg&key=2e22b9b34c25269bb99eeff7ca6b19786bc67c5bb32d38c12fadf7879b73c91fb283c6dec41b21e0a82d02c1fe6c8e52.jpg&key=97604fe4e36903042509b81c448860155694601947f15c7cea55e0669220a48867ec570e5ca950566b28a10bd7119730.jpg&key=f37f2d1d94185ac99e4eadba08ed16122dbfb46dc94af9079a0f4776fd77a74b
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

R.I.P.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would go against the JB weld idea, might get you out of trouble but would make it impossible to replace the staff again in the future.

Unfortunately starting to sound like its time to start again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tmuir said:

I would go against the JB weld idea, might get you out of trouble but would make it impossible to replace the staff again in the future.

Absolutely agree. What about give the balance hole a gentle massage with the stacking set, that may have you regain the friction need. No need for an able machinis lower himself using chemical shortcuts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely agree. What about give the balance hole a gentle massage with the stacking set, that may have you regain the friction need. No need for an able machinis lower himself using chemical shortcuts.

Agree. Will re-stake with staking set. The JB Weld “chemical” solution will also add weight to the balance: may be indiscernible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another Setback. I thought I would try securing the balance by restating it, but I left the roller table on and thought it would hold up to the pounding. I thought wrong. The roller table is made of brass and simply crushed. Ahhhhhh, should have taken it off prior to re-riveting the balance. Now I need another roller table or simply call this a scrap movement. Good news is I got it for free. “Should have simply JB Welded the balance back on” and I know, not normally acceptable.3117afeb28b95e3d44d2de241091560d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 7:48 AM, Tmuir said:

Now that is annoying.

I remember the first balance staff I made took me forever, probably spent about 8 or 10 hours on it and taking the final cut for the perfect fir for the roller table I cut too deep and took off an extra 1 or 2 100th of a mm and the roller table went from a friction fit to a sliding fit.

So it was back to the start again. I still keep that balance staff though to show people just how small the things you have to machine by hand with a graver to fix a watch, and then I tell them my balance staff is from a pocket watch and a wristwatch staff is about 30 to 40% smaller again.

 

I hope you have enough material to be able to rivet it on.

     i would have cheeted.  epoxy this one ; do it right nex time.    vin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, jdm said:

Is it difficult to make a roller table?

Yes, it's pretty difficult to do it right. The radius position of the roller jewel is really critical as well as the safety roller diameter and its notch to pass the dart; should also make a shaped broach to make the hole for the roller jewel though a round hole can still work. It's easier of you have a measuring microscope and jig boring machine... If one had another to copy it would be much easier and probably doable without fancy machines to a decently functional level by someone skilled at fiddly work.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it's pretty difficult to do it right. The radius position of the roller jewel is really critical as well as the safety roller diameter and its notch to pass the dart; should also make a shaped broach to make the hole for the roller jewel though a round hole can still work. It's easier of you have a measuring microscope and jig boring machine... If one had another to copy it would be much easier and probably doable without fancy machines to a decently functional level by someone skilled at fiddly work.

That's it, I have a 2000 buck stereo microscope and I love a challenge. I may try to make one. Will be tough to make the jewel hole as was said.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ouch, I can imagine the air might of turned blue for a few seconds after the roller broke.

Archie Perkin's book details how to make a roller, but its a big difference between reading how to do it and actually doing it, I've certainly never tried to make one before.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

de Carles book cover this also.    i had a problem with a roller jewel.  the hole that it "slips into"   was too  large.  and it sliped back from the fork.  the clearence is critical !!   i think i would bail out.   (army air corps "when in doubt - bail out").  vin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ouch, I can imagine the air might of turned blue for a few seconds after the roller broke.
Archie Perkin's book details how to make a roller, but its a big difference between reading how to do it and actually doing it, I've certainly never tried to make one before.

Thanks for the reference. I may have that book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

de Carles book cover this also.    i had a problem with a roller jewel.  the hole that it "slips into"   was too  large.  and it sliped back from the fork.  the clearence is critical !!   i think i would bail out.   (army air corps "when in doubt - bail out").  vin

When I was in the armoured corps they said “when I doubt Pit Out” aka go to sleep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

shelac ; the glue used on the pallet jewels for years.  i never liked it because it can be easly desolved by most cleaning fluids.  i learned the hard way to remove those parts before cleaning.  vin

I too have learned the hard way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, jdrichard said:


I too have learned the hard way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

      we need a glue half way between shellac and epoxy.    epoxy supositly breaks down at 250 deg, F,  but it is destructive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

      we need a glue half way between shellac and epoxy.    epoxy supositly breaks down at 250 deg, F,  but it is destructive.

JD Weld is a very good epoxy that seems to work better than your normal epoxy. I used it to glue a Pinion into a gear shaft...I had no other alternative for transplanting the Pinion. Worked like a charm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  JD  orJB ?    epoxys'  are all same,  i looked it up,   "cyanocrylates" .   what i want is a compromise between shellac and epoxy.  i remember  "non hardening Permatex" -  no longer avialable.  somthing resintant to alcohol,  but removed with acitone.  too much to ask for ?  vin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  JD  orJB ?    epoxys'  are all same,  i looked it up,   "cyanocrylates" .   what i want is a compromise between shellac and epoxy.  i remember  "non hardening Permatex" -  no longer avialable.  somthing resintant to alcohol,  but removed with acitone.  too much to ask for ?  vin

JB Weld. I do find this a lot better than the old and still available two tube epoxy

 

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • OK, welcome in the world of alarm clocks... I guess the 4th wheel is dished because it is from another movement. If it was not dishet, then it would not mesh with the pinion of the escape wheel, am I right? The marks of wear on the 4th wheel pinion doesn't corespond to the 3th wheel table position, at list this is what i see on the picts. Calculating the rate is easy - there is a formula - BR = T2 x T3 x T4 x T5 x 2 /(P3 x P4 x P5) where T2 - T5 are the counts of the teeth of the wheels tables, and P3 - P5 are the counts of the pinion leaves. Vibrating the balance is easy - grasp for the hairspring where it should stay in the regulator with tweasers, let the balance hang on the hairspring while the downside staff tip rests on glass surface. Then make the balance oscillate and use timer to measure the time for let say 50 oscillations, or count the oscillations for let say 30 seconds. You must do the free oscillations test to check the balance staff tips and the cone cup bearings for wear. This kind of staffs wear and need resharpening to restore the normal function of the balance.
    • Glue a nut to the barrel lid, insert a bolt, pull, disolve the glue.  Maybe someone will have a better answer. 
    • The stress is the force (on the spring) x distance. The maximum stress is at the bottom, and decreases up the arm. That's why they always break at the bottom. I used a round file, then something like 2000 grit to finish. I gave the rest of the arm a quick polish - no need for a perfect finish. Just make sure there are no 'notches' left from cutting/filing. The notches act like the perforations in your toilet paper 🤣
    • It's probably a cardinal rule for watch repair to never get distracted while at the bench. Yesterday, after finishing a tricky mainspring winding/barrel insertion (I didn't have a winder and arbor that fit very well) I mentally shifted down a gear once that hurdle was passed. There were other things going on in the room as I put the barrel and cover into the barrel closer and pressed to get that satisfying snap. But when I took it out I realized I never placed the arbor.  When opening a barrel, we are relying on the arbor to transfer a concentrically-distributed force right where it is needed at the internal center of the lid. However, when that isn't present it's difficult to apply pressure or get leverage considering the recessed position of the lid, the small holes in the barrel and the presence of the mainspring coils. It was a beat-up practice movement so I didn't take a lot of time to think it over and I pushed it out using a short right-angle dental probe placed in from the bottom, but that did leave a bit of a scratch and crease in the thin lid. I had also thought about pulling it using a course-threaded screw with a minor thread diameter smaller than the lid hole and a major diameter larger, but that may have done some damage as well.  Thinking about how this might have been handled had it been a more valuable movement, is there a method using watchmaking or other tools that should extract the lid with the least damage? 
    • 🤔 what happens if lubrication is placed directly on top of epilame ? Making a small groove so the lubrication doesn't spread across the component but what if when lubing a little overspills and sits on the epilame .
×
×
  • Create New...