Timex Refurbishment - Need some advice!

[totalrekall]

I have a Timex model: 28619 10680.  I understand it has a movement 106 (I've read the service guide) and was manufactured around 1980.  It still winds and runs perfectly, but has a few issues.

(1) The crystal is cracked in several spots (beyond a buffing repair) - needs a full replacement.  Anyone have info on what a stock replacement would be?  If not, any ideas on what a suitable generic replacement would be?  It has a dome like shape, so I'm not sure where to look.  I am measuring around 30.6mm, but I could be off.

(2) What size o-ring would I need for the cover cap (30.75 ish exterior measurement)?  The original is falling apart.

(3) Any info on how to take this apart / advice on best method to replace the crystal?  I don't want to start jamming things in the back, but I have the cover open.  Need to start by taking out the crown (not sure based on vagueness of service guide).  The glass is still in tact, but cracked in several places.

Thanks in advance, I am hoping to get pics up ASAP, and keep everyone updated on the refurbishment process!

 

[AndyHull]

The crystal should be relatively easy to source, but you do need to measure it carefully, and fit the replacement carefully.

As to dismantling the watch, that depends on the style of construction, so some pictures would be needed before we could comment further.

Some allow the mechanism to come out of the back, others, from the front. Some have it retained by a metal spring, others don't. The crown is generally held in by a clip/spring arrangement, which needs loosened by a turn or two on the screw (but you don't need to remove the screw completely, just back it off a couple of turns and gently pull the crown).

Post a few pics and we can advise on what to do next.

[totalrekall]

Here is a picture of the mechanism:

 

Here is a picture of the crystal shape and the cover with o ring that needs to be replaced:

[AndyHull]

In that version, the mechanism comes out from the crystal side.

First back of the screw adjacent to the crown by 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 turns, and wiggle the crown out.

Next either remove the crystal with a crystal lifter if you have one . This is the safer, preferred method.

Otherwise, press firmly into those half moon shaped cut-outs in the case, in order to press the mechanism against the crystal and force it out that way. This is much riskier, not least because the whole thing can fly apart, and send things bouncing round the room. Never a good idea with any watch. 

Once you have the mechanism out, you can give it a clean and oil as per the service manual.

Rebuilding is the reverse of taking apart.

Refit the mechanism to the case, then fit the crown and stem (a one piece affair on these Timexes) and screw the screw back down. Next, fit your new crystal, preferably with a suitable crystal press, although you may be able to press it in to place by hand. This takes care, and not a little skill, as you don't want to damage the new crystal in the process, or get dirt or grubby fingerprints on it or the dial or hands, nor bend the hands in the process of fitting the crystal.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by AndyHull

[watchweasol]

Hi  Follow Andy's advise and you will be ok, These movements employ the "V conic" balance and can be cleaned as is in Naptha (lighter fuel) or carburetter cleaner both dry with no residu then when dry, can be assisted with hair dryer. lubricate according to instructions.  as crystal lifter can be got of ebay  cheaply enough its a multi clawed device which fits over the crystal edges and when tightened compresses the crystal enableing it to be pulled out.  before attempting to remove the crystal if its cracked put sellotape over it to hold it in one piece.

[totalrekall]

Great advice - thanks so much.  I’ll pick up a crystal lifter and give it a shot.

 

Any ideas on a suitable replacement crystal?  On the front page of the movement’s service manual it says “29.4mm” but is that just the movement?  Or does it apply to the crystal of all the watches it works with?  I’ve seen 29.4mm authentic Timex crystal replacements on eBay but I was measuring the crystal at 30.6mm.  
 

Thanks again all for the helpful info, excited for this refurb!

[watchweasol]

Hi If you can get the crystal out in one piece measure either the case front (bezel) where the crystal fits or the crystal its self. Have a look on the net at esslingers site in America they do a tutorial on fitting a crystal  failing that JerseyMo on this site is the Timex Guru message him.

[AndyHull]

Measure the existing crystal carefully, both the height and more importantly the diameter.  If you try to fit a crystal that is too low, it will probably foul the hands. Typically crystals are called low dome and high dome, but there are also other variants. This is almost certainly a high dome.
You will need to be able to measure to within 0.1mm at least, so use calipers.
Take two or three measurements and average them.
For example if the crystal measures 30.2mm then you are looking for a 302 crystal.

If you haven't done this before, get a couple, as there is a good chance you will crack the first one, particularly if the fit is very tight.
Watch the esslinger tutorial that watcheasol mentioned, it is very good.
When fitting the crystal on a "front loader" like this, be very careful to ensure you dont leave any dust, or fingerprints (wear latex gloves) on the dial or the inner surface of the crystal, as once fitted it is difficult to remove and refit without breaking the crystal (don't ask me how I know).

[totalrekall]

I’ve read some of JerseyMo’s older posts to gain my initial knowledge - definitely the Timex resident expert .

I’ll get started by ordering the crystal lift.  Perhaps by the time is gets to me someone may have info on a NOS crystal replacement model number.

Thanks everyone!  

[AndyHull]

6 minutes ago, totalrekall said:

Perhaps by the time is gets to me someone may have info on a NOS crystal replacement model number.

If you can give us a size, we can advise. The "model number" is really just the size and height.

[JerseyMo]

even the round Timex crystals can be tricky as Andy points out due to the interior gap between the hands and the under side of the crystal.  And before you ask, no I don't have any in stock.  That case style was used for many models ( 105, 106, 107, 108 and 109)  so I ran out long ago.  I think but not sure they measure at 30.7 or 30.8 MM.

Don't forget to drop the dial ring back into place.  "May the Timex gods shine their wisdom brightly on your quest"

guru talk

[watchweasol]

Hi  There you are the wise man from the mountains has spoken, heed his advise

[totalrekall]

1 hour ago, JerseyMo said:

even the round Timex crystals can be tricky as Andy points out due to the interior gap between the hands and the under side of the crystal.  And before you ask, no I don't have any in stock.  That case style was used for many models ( 105, 106, 107, 108 and 109)  so I ran out long ago.  I think but not sure they measure at 30.7 or 30.8 MM.

Don't forget to drop the dial ring back into place.  "May the Timex gods shine their wisdom brightly on your quest"

guru talk

Thanks for the advice JerseyMo.  Do you have any documentation as to what a stock replacement crystal would be?  For example, I found these on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-G-S-PA-NOS-Watch-Crystals-Select-a-style-E/231700805495?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=530921268460&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I'm still waiting on the crystal lifter, so as soon as I get the old one out, I can provide some exact measurements (especially if I need to go the generic crystal replacement route).

[JerseyMo]

the dial code is key to all vintage Time Timex parts from 1963 forward.   That number can than be matched to looked up in either the small booklets or the main distribution center book.  But, they differ in what information they provide. For example the small booklet will list somehting like htis 20242468 - 12 meaning a Marlin with a 24 movment made in 1968 uses the part found in envelope 12.

the distribution list will be broken has a few mehtods.  One such would be 20242468 - 24001001 Crystal.  Meaning the crystal for the Marlin can be found in envlope 24001001.  Apples and oranges?   I'm sure somewhere or at sometime there was a document that woould show that 24001001 goes into envelope 12.  But that is just a guess.  Than again I may be thinking to logically!

 

[AndyHull]

@totalrekall I don't see the size you mention in that ebay link.

These, however look fairly promising.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-DOME-WATCH-CRYSTALS-27-8mm-32-4-Acrylic-Plastic-Replacement-Crystal-Glass/192736171743?hash=item2cdff896df:m:mvOqMZuxo_75buLOLpdbnIA

..or perhaps these..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acrylic-Watch-Glass-Crystal-High-Domed-Sizes-From-27-8mm-32-4mm-Free-Post/400864540827?var=670414222007&hash=item5d5563789b:m:mT5Y_BSNt9LblT9Jn9AYulA

Keep us posted if you find what you need, as would would love to see the results.

[totalrekall]

Update: I was able to get the crystal off in one piece.  The measurement seems to be around 31.15mm across the outside of the crystal.  It is 5mm from center of dome to rim base (e.g., height of dome if you will) and is about 1.5mm thick.

[AndyHull]

Jerseymo will almost certainly be able to provide a Timex part number, but I suspect a generic high dome 312 (31.2mm) crystal would fit, something like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acrylic-Watch-Glass-Crystal-High-Domed-Sizes-From-27-8mm-32-4mm-Free-Post/400864540827?var=670414222007&hash=item5d5563789b:m:mT5Y_BSNt9LblT9Jn9AYulA

 

I can't vouch for that supplier, it was simply the first seller I came to on ebay using the search terms "watch crystal high dome" which had something that looked close.

[totalrekall]

I ordered a variety pack of crystals, so we will see what fits.  Also, get some extras for future projects

Any idea as to what the replacement gasket for the case cover should be, size wise?  I see alot of the Amazon selections vary in diameter but are around .5mm, .6mm, .7mm thick.

[jdm]

17 hours ago, totalrekall said:

Any idea as to what the replacement gasket for the case cover should be, size wise?  I see alot of the Amazon selections vary in diameter but are around .5mm, .6mm, .7mm thick.

For the largest gasket size range check Cousins UK.

[totalrekall]

Thanks, like the crystals, ordered a variety pack of o-rings to cover size variation. 

[JerseyMo]

I've already stated that the Timex part number if found will not be much help.   The genric crystal shown made by Deluxe is one of the tyope I use myself.  If you order 30.2 30.4 30.6 and 30.8 they will get you through many repairs.  BUT!  there are a few that won't work.

One reson is that Timex made thier own crystals and the edge of them were wedged, wher those by Delux are flat.  So you may need to use a crystal glue ( very common even by the pros ) to secure the crystal in place.

other reason is the height of the dome not being equal.  That can most times be adjusted for with a loittle tweak of the hands.

Remember if it were easy, it won't be so rewrding when you get one repaired!

[totalrekall]

JerseyMo - I agree 100%.  The fun in this restoration has been hunting down parts and thinking about clever work arounds.  As soon as my parts arrive, I'll provide an update.

Thanks again to all who have assisted with this project!

[totalrekall]

I've fit a new crystal, gasket, and strap on the watch.

However, now I'm facing a new issue - the movement doesn't seem to be operating correctly.  When I go to wind the watch (turn the crown upwards) it feels stuck or frozen.  When I move it downward, it just clicks.  The second hand ticks fine from the 6 to 2 markers, but seems to stop after 3, and when I turn the hands of the watch it will move a little at a time.

Any thoughts?  Is it possible the new crystal is causing this type of issue?  Or has the movement died?

[JerseyMo]

13 hours ago, totalrekall said:

Any thoughts?  Is it possible the new crystal is causing this type of issue?  Or has the movement died?

the simple test is to remove the crystal ans see if the issue is gone.

did you remove the dial from the movment at any point?

[totalrekall]

I did not remove the dial at any point.  I tried to touch as little as possible since the movement was working fine.