Jump to content

Waltham Mass Balance Spring

carlos123

By carlos123
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

 Share

Recommended Posts

carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

Posted
Posted

Hi all,

 

I’ve just stripped and rebuilt a Waltham Mass pocket watch, which was running previously but didn’t keep time and kept on stopping. I’m on the final assembly stage and trying to install the balance wheel with little success [emoji45] the spring looks to be too big for the fixing point as well as the regulator being higher than the actual spring[emoji848] I’ve not messed around with it other than an ultrasonic bath and some oil, and wondered if someone could offer some advice please? This is my first proper go for a full strip down so hopefully I haven’t broken it...

 

Thanks in advance

 

Carl

b95a66af7cc159750ad57e0733a8fb59.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted (edited)

In the picture, the balance wheel seems laying on top of the mainbridge. Should stand a mm or two above the plate.

Check if the lower jewel is intact?  Lower pivot not broken. 

Show pix if not sure.

Regards 

 

Edited by Nucejoe
Lower metal bushing
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have you tried it in cock down position?

If the fork checks out( jumps left to right and back when nudged ) and nothing rubs, upper pivot intact, desent endshake. Perhaps roller has turned on staff which throws impulse jewel out of beat, that to explain the stud being far from stud holder.

 

Edited by Nucejoe
Check if the roller has moved.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Check lower endstone? Did you forget to instal the lower endstone or broken.

I left the endstone in place when I cleaned it all. The balance spring looks offset when fitted as it looks like the anchor point is too close to the centre, the spring doesn’t really engage with the regulator either as it’s too high compared to where the spring lays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

A picture of the other side of the balance Wheel and hairspring be nice so we can see the hairspring properly. Then the serial number so I can look up and see what kind of the hairspring you're supposed to have. Then before you disassemble did you notice any problems with the balance wheel and hairspring?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

Posted
  • Author
Posted
A picture of the other side of the balance Wheel and hairspring be nice so we can see the hairspring properly. Then the serial number so I can look up and see what kind of the hairspring you're supposed to have. Then before you disassemble did you notice any problems with the balance wheel and hairspring?

Hopefully these photos are good enough and show the spring position?
7bc90c506a7d35bf2b96c7de23a42aa5.jpg74c208ea557d8ba35cd8a90fb01e5702.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

I find the pictures misleading I had assumed that that was in 18 size pocket watch? So apparently it's a 14 size export grade watch. Both Elgin & waltham exported a lot of watches to Europe sometimes they had their name on them sometimes they did not that are often mistaken as English watches if their name is not visibly on them.

Then your picture looks like a slightly distorted outer terminal curve for a flat hairspring unfortunately according to the pocket watch database it's supposed to be in over coil. Then looking at where the regulator is in your first picture it looks like the pins are too short for flat hairspring and to close in it's definitely an over coil hairspring which you definitely do not have.

Look carefully at the balance wheel and see if there's a serial number on the wheel itself. Usually but not always on American pocket watches the serial number has been scratched in the balance wheel we can see if somebody swapped balance wheels?

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/6980192

14 size export grade.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted

Familiarize if you will, with the shape of a breguet overcoil . This HS may vibrate with the wheel, either the overcoil uncoiled or somebody just fitted a flat HS and passed it to you. 

At worst you would need to replace the HS with a proper breguet overcoil and vibrate.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
Posted
In the picture, the balance wheel seems laying on top of the mainbridge. Should stand a mm or two above the plate.
Check if the lower jewel is intact?  Lower pivot not broken. 
Show pix if not sure.
Regards 
 

The stud is not in place in the photo??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

The serial number on the balance wheel is not stamped. It's usually hand done sometimes it's really hard to see and occasionally it's not there at all. You'll find it on the arms either on the top or the bottom. Then that hairspring looks nice and flat which is unfortunate because it looks like from the pictures you should have an over coil Hairspring. So if you can find a serial number on the balance it would be nice . Because that way we can figure out whether you just need a hairspring or balance complete either of which will be hard to get for 14 size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The serial number on the balance wheel is not stamped. It's usually hand done sometimes it's really hard to see and occasionally it's not there at all. You'll find it on the arms either on the top or the bottom. Then that hairspring looks nice and flat which is unfortunate because it looks like from the pictures you should have an over coil Hairspring. So if you can find a serial number on the balance it would be nice . Because that way we can figure out whether you just need a hairspring or balance complete either of which will be hard to get for 14 size.

Just found the number, it looks like 6980 192. Very difficult to see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, carlos123 said:

Just found the number, it looks like 6980 192. Very difficult to see

Good news you have the balance wheel for your watch bad news you don't have the hairspring perhaps? So if you're really good with hairspring manipulation you could possibly reform the over coil but that is a lot of work and the other minor problem is this assumes that this was the correct hairspring in the first place which it may not be. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, carlos123 said:

Would it be viable to reshape the spring? The watch did intermittently run previously prior to cleaning, however it was running way out with no adjustment which is probably down to the incorrect spring anyways...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, if the flat HS vibrates the wheel to the right beat, it also will as overcoil. I recommend  reshaping to overcoil. 

1- Moung the stud on stud holder.

2- instal balance ( hairspring attached) on the cock.

3- As if you are sculpturing , follow the curve of an overcoil from a picture as your modle. To come up with a fit within the space available above the balance wheel.

I hope I am making sense. 

Easier done than said. 

Edited by Nucejoe
Instal cock balance on mainplate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, carlos123 said:

Would it be viable to reshape the spring? The watch did intermittently run previously prior to cleaning, however it was running way out with no adjustment which is probably down to the incorrect spring anyways...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It should run slow without the adjustor arm. How inaccurate did it run without?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • VWatchie
      Epilame / Fixodrop

      By VWatchie · Posted

      Sounds great! And yes, I would use grease for the keyless as well although treating the parts with epilame would make the grease less likely to spread in the long run. Not critical but won’t hurt. My current strategy is to epilame treat all parts getting in contact with oil or grease.
    • Knebo
      Epilame / Fixodrop

      By Knebo · Posted

      Hello everyone, for what it's worth, here is my approach: 1. Escape wheel submerged in Epilame, then dried quickly with a hairdryer. Then the final tip of the pivots are cleaned by poking into pithwood. The logic being that the Epilame is removed at the intended contact point (to avoid any residue that may mix with the oil), but remains in the areas where oil is not supposed to spread to (further down the pivot towards the wheel). The escape wheel teeth also benefit from having Epilame to keep the 9415 in place.  2. I use a syringe to treat only the pallet stones. I suspend the pallet fork with some Rodico so that the stones hang downwards. I notably use a rather thick needle where a drop WON'T form, but rather where the Epilame liquid stays in the needle tip, which I then dip into the pallet stones. It requires some practice to get the right amount of Epilame into the needle tip, but it works for me now. This way, no drop will "jump" onto the pallet fork and potentially go all the way to the pivots.  3. I let the movement run for a few minutes without lubricating the pallet stones... to scrape off the Epilame in the intended contact "channel". Then I remove the balance again and lubricate the exit pallet stone with 3-4 successive drops. See the "channel" that forms on the pallet stone in the picture -- not so easy to see, but it's visible.       I am conflicted about the use of Epliame in balance jewel settings. My impression is that the two jewels sufficiently suspend the oil (even 9010). Apparently Rolex recommends NOT to use Epliame there (heard from a former Rolex service center watchmaker), as it could cause additional wear. Apart from that, I follow specific instructions where I can find them. E.g. the infamous Rolex reverser wheels or sometimes (parts of) the seconds wheel. Exception: I'm currently servicing an Eta 2824 and will probably ignore the service sheet that recommends treating the whole keyless works with Epilame and then using HP1300... I'll skip the Epilame and use 9504 grease.        
    • GuyMontag
      Movement holder made with 3D printer

      By GuyMontag · Posted

      I'm going to give this a try today/tomorrow on my UTC33/Seiko 66, thanks!
    • RichardHarris123
      Intro

      By RichardHarris123 · Posted

      Hello and welcome from Leeds, England. 
    • oldhippy
      Without Our Forum

      By oldhippy · Posted

      Don't forget Mark is a hard working watch maker so he is also tied up with work. I'm sure he is keeping his eye on this forum making sure it is running along nicely. 
×
×
  • Create New...