Rotary Skeleton Movement Disassembling

[Vladimir]

Hi Guys, 

Hope this finds all well, i have started disassembling a rotary watch with a skeleton movement and a tiny part fell out of the movement which i was not in time to take a picture. If anyone has ever worked on similar movement and know where it belongs i will appreciate your help.

Pictures attached.

Thank you in advance. 

Vladimir.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Do you have the make and calibre of the movment that way we will be able to find the tech sheet for you

[AndyHull]

That looks suspiciously  like a PTS Hangzhou, one of the most common Chinese skeletonized movements.

Something like the one above. You may find some info here ->

http://www.ptsresources.com/watch_handwinding_01.htm

and here ->

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/808-chinese-watch-movement-information/

If you can identify the exact caliber, then you may be able to track down a datasheet, or perhaps a tear down video.

They are in my opinion, reasonable quality, so worth repairing.

Edited September 18, 2019 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

The "small part" looks most likely to be from the keyless work, and looks to have been held in place by a screw.
Is the movement an automatic or manual wind?

[watchweasol]

Hi  Once again Andy is on the mark, The chinese produce quite a few skeleton movements, which one this is, we really need the calibre to be able to identify the bit. I doe's look as though it was at some time screwed down, the screw may yet be lodged in the works some where.

[watchweasol]

Hi further research turns up rotary using the Hangzhou HZ2189 movement but also they used seagull movements of which there are a lot of both makes on the market. Will continue to look

[Vladimir]

4 hours ago, AndyHull said:

The "small part" looks most likely to be from the keyless work, and looks to have been held in place by a screw.
Is the movement an automatic or manual wind?

Hi AndyHull,

It is an automatic movement.

Thanks.

Vladimir.

[Vladimir]

56 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi further research turns up rotary using the Hangzhou HZ2189 movement but also they used seagull movements of which there are a lot of both makes on the market. Will continue to look

Hi watchweasol,

Thanks a lot for you dedication,  it seems that is the right movement reference. I could establish that the same movement is used in some Shurling Watches (Alpine model).

thank you all for your patience.

Regards,

[Vladimir]

5 hours ago, AndyHull said:

The "small part" looks most likely to be from the keyless work, and looks to have been held in place by a screw.
Is the movement an automatic or manual wind?

 Hi AndyHull,

it is automatic...

thanks...

Regards,

[AndyHull]

This link might also help

http://www.startimesupply.com/product/CH2189W.html

 

I think it is the same movement, or at least one that is closely related, and there is a partial picture of the keyless work.

[AndyHull]

Here is the dial side.

[AndyHull]

That part number -  CH2189W - seems to turn up quite a lot of info too. 

It is not uncommon for the same, or similar movements to be listed with different part numbers by different suppliers, and for the same or similar Chinese movements to be produced by more than one manufacturer.

Edited September 18, 2019 by AndyHull

[aac58]

Could it be a (broken) click? It's similar to the Seiko click designs in some movements like 6119, and now that AndyHull has shown the movement there are quite a few parts that are also like the Seiko, for example the second reduction wheel and the pawl levers on the automatic mechanism. And I can see the click is also Seiko style.

EDIT: This is a Seiko 6119 click

Edited September 18, 2019 by aac58

[watchweasol]

Hi I have enclosed some more information on chinese watches for you, May be of some use.

8163_Mechanical_MovementsALL_smaller.pdf 6173_Sea-Gull 2015 pages 1-7.pdf 6178_Sea-Gull 2015 pages 8-14.pdf 8164_Sea-Gull 2015 pages 15-20.pdf

[CaptCalvin]

I'm pretty sure it's a spring for a wig-wag style reversing wheel. Is this a unidirectional automatic winding movement? These movements can come with a variety of automatic mechanisms.

[aac58]

Those pawl levers (aka Magic Levers) translates the movement of the rotor in any direction to an anticlockwise movement on the second reduction wheel (the wheel with the left-handed screw) Then it is transfered to the rachet wheel and then to the main spring.

The click is between the rachet wheel (golden coloured wheel in the AndyHull photo) and the barrel below it, and I think this click could be the part you found.

But, if it is the click, where is the screw that was holding it in place? And the rest of the click?

With the 2nd reduction wheel removed, you can test if there is a working click by trying to wind the movement via the rachet wheel screw and see it the MS holds the tension.

[Vladimir]

6 hours ago, AndyHull said:

This link might also help

http://www.startimesupply.com/product/CH2189W.html

 

I think it is the same movement, or at least one that is closely related, and there is a partial picture of the keyless work.

Hi AndyHull,

this picture and aac58 comments helped in identifying where that part goes,  i have attached an image with the highlighted area.

thanks a million...

 

[Vladimir]

1 hour ago, aac58 said:

Those pawl levers (aka Magic Levers) translates the movement of the rotor in any direction to an anticlockwise movement on the second reduction wheel (the wheel with the left-handed screw) Then it is transfered to the rachet wheel and then to the main spring.

The click is between the rachet wheel (golden coloured wheel in the AndyHull photo) and the barrel below it, and I think this click could be the part you found.

 But, if it is the click, where is the screw that was holding it in place? And the rest of the click?

With the 2nd reduction wheel removed, you can test if there is a working click by trying to wind the movement via the rachet wheel screw and see it the MS holds the tension.

Hi aac58,

thank you so much for the detailed explanation... it helped a lot locating where it goes..

Regards,

[Vladimir]

Hi All,

I am very overwhelmed with all the replies that was provided, thanks a lot for everybody that had an input on this, really appreciated it.

Regards,

[Watchtime]

thi is how this forum works, a lot of knowledge ready to share...welcome mate

[watchweasol]

Hi  as watchtime says that's the function of the forum, Its to provide help and inspire people. Otherwise why are we here.  well done in sorting it out

 

[Waggy]

I have the same movement with the exact same problem.... found this little part appear on my desk top with no idea where it came from. Now I know..... but any ideas what it is there for? Iput the watch back together and it seemed to work fine, but after an hour or two it kept stopping and would re-start if I gave it a little shake... only so stop again in a few hours more. Could leaving this part out be related to the stopping issue. I'll put the part back now I know where it goes, but just wondered if the stopping is related to this part?

[AndyHull]

Given that the part was originally held in with a small screw, it is possible that the small screw is somewhere in the works, causing issues. Did you do a full strip and rebuild? What is the amplitude like? It sounds more like dirt on one of the teeth, play in something, or a worn barrel bearing or something similar rather than that mystery part, that is causing your issue.