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Winding breitling super avenger without crown possible?


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Hi, I have a Breitling super avenger and the crown has broken of. As it didn t automaticly wind anymore I was using the crown so often to wind the watch, that it has broken. I ordered a new crown with a tube, but I don t know if I can replace this. I am also wondering if I can do something to wind the watch without using the crown just to keep it working? On the last photo you can see that I damaged the tube. I was trying to pull it out, so i can put the knew crown in, but I think this was a mistake. I am just starting to read about watches and decided to open the case and learn from it. 

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Replacing the tube and cutting a new stem are tasks well outside the possibility of an owner, so you have to give the piece to a good watchmaker. You could now wind at the barrel by I strongly recommend you don't do so, as you would have to open the watch every time, attracting dirt, or even cratch something if the screwdriver slips. You gain nothing from having a mechanical watch run all time, especially one that you don't wear. If you have heard that is good practice to run mechanical watches all the time, that is absolutely wrong. Actually if the movement has not been serviced recently (last 5 years) that will cause premature wear that is expensive to repair.

Especially with screw type automatics is it's not recommended to hand wind them constantly, they are not really designed for that, and in the end something can break as in your case. If you really want to have some watches running for "collector rotation" use a winder box. 

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The tube, stem & crown need replacing. The watch is not waterproof without the screw down crown. To do this task the movement has to be removed from the case. A relatively straight forward job proving you have the correct tools. If not contact a reputable watch repairer. 

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7 minutes ago, clockboy said:

 A relatively straight forward job proving you have the correct tools. 

Replacing tube is not trivial and may need a press, depending on the type. Cutting stem to precise length for a screw-type crown is also tricky. Definitely not a task for a watch owner's - which I suppose the OP is.

Edited by jdm
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You may be able to open the original tube and re-form it back in to its original form with care and some needle nose pliers, however this may also compromise the waterproof nature of the watch.

However since the original issue is that the winder mechanism is no longer serviceable, you would simply be putting the watch back in to a semi working condition. A more correct fix would be to find a donor and replace the winder weight (and anything else that is damaged on the auto-winder), replace the stem tube, the stem and the crown, replace the waterproof seals at the same time, service, clean, polish etc. This might however be uneconomical if you sent it to get this done by a professional, depending on the value of the watch to you obviously.

If it has some sentimental attachment, then I would go the whole hog and get it fixed back to "showroom condition" as it looks like it would scrub up nicely. If you feel up to the task of fixing it yourself then the first thing you need to do is identify the movement type, and find a donor. Next you need to repair the movement and address the crown issue. Clean and polish up the case and glass.

Finally, if you are feeling brave, and the risk of failure is not too daunting, you could strip and clean the movement, lubricate, adjust etc.

 

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52 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

You may be able to open the original tube and re-form it back in to its original form with care and some needle nose pliers, however this may also compromise the waterproof nature of the watch.

It's a screw-down type, at least it should be, as I can't distinguish threads from the picture ?!?
Can you imagine how a threading distorted and then reformed with pliers would work?

Quote

If you feel up to the task of fixing it yourself then the first thing you need to do is identify the movement type, and find a donor. Next you need to repair the movement and address the crown issue. Clean and polish up the case and glass.

Finally, if you are feeling brave, and the risk of failure is not too daunting, you could strip and clean the movement, lubricate, adjust etc.

Breitling Avenger (I assume it's authentic, can't tell from the poor pictures) starts used about $4,000, it is run by a 7750 which can cost easily $800, now you're suggesting that an owner without any experience messes with it, or even a de-valuating swap? Sorry, I don't agree with anything of that.

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

It's a screw-down type, at least it should be, as I can't distinguish threads from the picture ?!?
Can you imagine how a threading distorted and then reformed with pliers would work?

Breitling Avenger (I assume it's authentic, can't tell from the poor pictures) starts used about $4,000, it is run by a 7750 which can cost easily $800, now you're suggesting that an owner without any experience messes with it, or even a de-valuating swap? Sorry, I don't agree with anything of that.

Fair comments, however I did state that any attempt to straighten the tube might render the waterproofing useless.

"... however this may also compromise the waterproof nature of the watch"

... and...


Given the probable value of the watch if genuine, any repair would be best left to a professional, however if the watch is a clone, then I doubt if it would be worth the expense.

In other words...

"This might however be uneconomical if you sent it to get this done by a professional, depending on the value of the watch to you obviously."

.. so as with every repair, it is down to the owner to decide what they want to do. I can only advise that if the watch were mine, and I was unable to perform the repair and it was a genuine watch, then I would take it to a professional, as this would probably be the least risk solution.

If the watch was mine, and not genuine, and I had the skills to repair it myself, then I would personally attempt to repair it.

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3 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

 

Given the probable value of the watch if genuine, any repair would be best left to a professional, however if the watch is a clone, then I doubt if it would be worth the expense.

I agree. Sorry, I have wasted many righteous words, my brain wasn't connected when I looked at the pictures. It can't even be called a clone, just an average counterfeit. Straight tube, dead pushers, that even before looking at the  mov't.

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1 minute ago, jdm said:

I agree. Sorry, I have wasted many righteous words, my brain wasn't connected when I looked at the pictures. It can't even be called a clone, just an average counterfeit. Straight tube, dead pushers, that even before looking at the  mov't.

Even a "clone" is probably not a $5 watch - for example the Shanghai 3LZF2 typically comes in at around $150 + shipping. So under those circumstances, even if the watch is not genuine, it may still be worth the Op sending it to get it repaired, or spending the time and effort repairing it themselves.

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I'll admit, I'm not sure if the watch is "real" or not. My gut feeling is not.

The pushers do appear to be functional and the caliber does appear to be some kind of ETA/Valjoux Caliber 7750 or clone, and the movement ring does not appear to be the ubiquitous nylon or plastic ring. The tube however doesn't appear to be threaded, but that may just be down to poor picture quality.

Also the movement may have "25 Jewel - Swiss" stamped on it, however the pictures are not clear enough to convince me one way or the other. If these pictures were all I had to go on, on an ebay auction, I wouldn't bid. I may have just missed out on the bargain of the century though. :unsure:

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2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I'll admit, I'm not sure if the watch is "real" or not. My gut feeling is not.

OK, the pics are not that bad, and pushers are connected. 
Now, on the video below on this very subject, 1:49 the "25 jewels etc" stamping is not present on the authentic, but is on the OP, which comes type of finishing.

Indeed, the wring is present on this other one by our Mark, but it's about an "unfinished" 7750.

I think it's virtually impossible for counterfeiters to reliably mimic the endless small variations that the big brands continuously introduce. 
I'm definitely a knob about 7750 and fakes, but I think that if one keeps looking can spot more differences.

 

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I don't know about the rest of the watch but I do know my 7750's. Guys it's a genuine ETA 7750. I've worked with enough fake and real 7750s to know. First thing is that it has an etachron regulator. The fake mainplates cannot accept these. Other small details include the chronograph brake and the cam. The fake cams have two holes for guide pins/rivets holes drilled all the way to the top and the brakes a casted part. The genuine cams do not have such holes on the top and the brakes a stamped part. The movement is also has a glucydur balance and serialized on the automatic device bridge which leads me to believe it's a chronometer grade movement and gives good credence that this is a genuine watch.

Back on topic: no you cannot wind a 7750 without a crown without some major disassembly to access the ratchet screw for winding. You either have loads of cash to throw around or are unaware of the value of this watch fiddling with it the way you did. It's expensive by most counts. Please, take it to a watchmaker.

Edited by CaptCalvin
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5 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

I don't know about the rest of the watch but guys it's a genuine ETA 7750.
,,,
Please, take it to a watchmaker.

Good points, thanks for correcting me about winding the barrel. But, what about the lack of tube threading? If it was threaded it would have not crushed as it did. And look at the roughness of the case metal. We haven't seen the rotor, which is always telling one way or another. It could be a genuine 7750 in a fake case?

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I'm not expert in authenticating watches based on externals but the case doesn't scream fake to me. If an owner is willing to mess with the insides of the watch (movement missing a screw by the way) I wouldn't imagine them putting any effort in keeping the outside looking especially tidy either. As for crown tube treading i wouldn't know on breitling super avengers but I have seen tubes with the treads on the inside on IWC's for example.

Even if the rest of the watch is fake I'm quite certain that the movement is a chronometer grade 7750, which is no throwaway item.

Edited by CaptCalvin
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I am reading that some of you guys think that it is a fake watch, but ai can assure you it is not! It is more than 5 years ago when i bought it from a reputable seller and it came with all the original boxes and also the metal strap which is really expensive. I have made some poor pictures, maybe that is the reason that someone of you think that it is not genuinee. I will send this watch to breitling even if it will cost me more than 1000 Euro before i mess it up more. Thank you guys for the tips. 

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18 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

As for crown tube treading i wouldn't know on breitling super avengers but I have seen tubes with the treads on the inside on IWC's for example.

Looks like you're correct, this listing for example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-BREITLING-CROWN-TUBE-REF180-734-FOR-CHRONO-AVENGER-M1-E73360-/253613359869

Or this other, friction fit. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BREITLING-CROWN-STEEL-TITANIUM-BLACK-SUPER-AVENGER-8-8MM-WITH-CASE-TUBE/173872897945

Looks like the OP went to the tube with pliers to remove it. 

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1 minute ago, Ken2708 said:

 I have made some poor pictures, maybe that is the reason that someone of you think that it is not genuine. I will send this watch to breitling even if it will cost me more than 1000 Euro before i mess it up more. 

Thank you for the clarification. I think that if the crown / tube you've ordered is good you may spend much less with a reputable independent watchmaker. In any case the decision to not mess with it further is the right one, good luck.

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37 minutes ago, jdm said:

Good points, thanks for correcting me about winding the barrel. But, what about the lack of tube threading? If it was threaded it would have not crushed as it did. And look at the roughness of the case metal. We haven't seen the rotor, which is always telling one way or another. It could be a genuine 7750 in a fake case?

Hi, the tube is crushed because of my stupitidy. i tryd to take it out with a tool and it got misformed. The rotor I had already removed to have a better look i side. I had ordered a new breitling crown with tube, but now I have experienced that this is out of my leage, I will stop trying

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2 hours ago, Ken2708 said:

Hi, the tube is crushed because of my stupitidy. i tryd to take it out with a tool and it got misformed. The rotor I had already removed to have a better look i side. I had ordered a new breitling crown with tube, but now I have experienced that this is out of my leage, I will stop trying.

Far better to admit your mistakes than compound them. Given that the watch is genuine, then I would carefully put it back together and take it to a Breitling authorized service center.

It may cost a fair bit more, but it will also ensure that the watch holds its value, so consider it less as an expense than preserving your investment. :biggrin:

Quote

I am just starting to read about watches and decided to open the case and learn from it. 

If you are really want to learn about watches, then I would start with something a little more friendly on the pocket. Perhaps a Seiko, a Citizen, or one of my personal favorites the ubiquitous HMTs and Sekondas.

Edited by AndyHull
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10 hours ago, AndyHull said:

Given that the watch is genuine, then I would carefully put it back together and take it to a Breitling authorized service center.

It may cost a fair bit more, but it will also ensure that the watch holds its value, so consider it less as an expense than preserving your investment. :biggrin:

I don't think that independent watchmakers are second in any aspect to what official service centers do, but in most case they charge less. Just look to what our Host Mark Lovick did with a rusted Breitling chronograph

Unfortunately for owners at this time Mark is not talking repairs. I am also impressed by the skills of Christian in the UK - thewatchguy.co.uk, and Archer Watches in North America. These are just two examples of someone with good online presence, then local ones which can be found  looking the directory of AWCI and BHI associations. 

Then with Brietling like other Swiss the problem could be that they restrict parts availability, but we have seen above that crown and tube are available on Ebay, as well 7750 parts. And independent repairers are resourceful anyway. My vote goes to give them work if possible at all, they guarantee their work and the watch will hold the same value. 

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51 minutes ago, jdm said:

My vote goes to give them work if possible at all, they guarantee their work and the watch will hold the same value. 

+1 to that, assuming the watch is not under any kind of current Breitling warranty.

Edited by AndyHull
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I'm no expert, but I understand enough to suggest that you find a 'good' watchmaker to send it to for repairs. This appears to be a special watch and should be treated as such. If the concern is financial, I suggest not wearing it and storing it until you can have it repaired.

Regards

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