I'm going to replace the crystal.. well, I'm going to try

[aac58]

So I have this watch that I like, and I have clean/oiled it and it's keeping very good time. It's a blue Seiko 6119-8083, but although I have it's original case, the case you're seeing is a different one because I do not have the crown/stem for the 8083 case.

I have just order a new AM stem and a NOS crown to take it to his own case, and yes it's been more expensive than the hole watch! 

Anyway, I want to also change the crystal of it's original case, and that's something I've never done so far, so I don't feel confident at all. I know that the (discontinued) Seiko crystal code is 310T10ANS0. So here are my questions:

1.- Would any 31,0 mm generic crystal fit in the case?

2.- Shoud I buy plexi or mineral, or it doesn't matter in terms of fitting it into the case?

3.- Do I have to remove the bezel before pressing the crystal in? (I have one of those manual cheap chinese crystal press, I know I should buy a better threaded one, but for now I have to try this one)

4.- I have no more questions, but I bet you have more answers for an absolute newbie like me 

Oh, btw! I'm attaching also pics of the 8083 case (not cleaned yet) just in case you need to take a look at it.

 

Thank you for any comment and/or advise!

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by aac58
Typos :)

[yankeedog]

From the pictures it looks like domed acrylic. So i would order a generic crystal of this type in the size you indicated.If you do a flat mineral glass crystal you may find there will not be enough clearance  for the hands, they may touch the crystal.You will need a crystal lift to install the new one . It compresses the crystal around it's circumference for installation.  I have found that sometimes crystals of this type are not always exactly sized and fit loosely. It would probably be wise to order one a size larger , Say 0.1 or 0.2 mm larger to insure a tight fit.It's not hard to do. If you can shave without cutting your throat ,you can do this.You don't have to remove the bezel and you should be able to pop the old crystal out with thumb pressure.

Edited August 26, 2019 by yankeedog
content

[jdm]

From what I see the existing crystal can be polished to a satisfying level. No parts needed, no disassembly and you learn an useful and rewarding skill. Many threads on the subject, just use the search function. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by jdm

[rogart63]

The crystal doesn't look to bad. But if you want to change it anyway i think there is a sternkreuz alternative to it?   XAC 311.523 i think would work. 

[yankeedog]

4 hours ago, jdm said:

From what I see the existing crystal can be polished to a satisfying level. No parts needed, no disassembly and you learn an useful and rewarding skill. Many threads on the subject, just use the search function. 

also true. mag and aluminum polish can hide a multitude of sins.

[vinn3]

5 hours ago, yankeedog said:

From the pictures it looks like domed acrylic. So i would order a generic crystal of this type in the size you indicated.If you do a flat mineral glass crystal you may find there will not be enough clearance  for the hands, they may touch the crystal.You will need a crystal lift to install the new one . It compresses the crystal around it's circumference for installation.  I have found that sometimes crystals of this type are not always exactly sized and fit loosely. It would probably be wise to order one a size larger , Say 0.1 or 0.2 mm larger to insure a tight fit.It's not hard to do. If you can shave without cutting your throat ,you can do this.You don't have to remove the bezel and you should be able to pop the old crystal out with thumb pressure.

  there is a chart that gives you the Thousand, of over, in inches, required to put a "press fit" on a "domed acrylic" crystal.  the watch tools req., the claw squizer and the one thats on a "crystal"  cabinet (i don't remember the name).  vin

[DavidMasters]

48 minutes ago, vinn3 said:

  there is a chart that gives you the Thousand, of over, in inches, required to put a "press fit" on a "domed acrylic" crystal.  the watch tools req., the claw squeezer and the one thats on a "crystal"  cabinet (i don't remember the name).  vin

I'v never had good luck with Claw Squeezers. Seems like I always leave a tiny Nic where the claws grab the crystal on the sides. I tried placing a paper towel between the crystal and Squeezer and that helped, but still under mag I could see where the grabbers were.

[Nucejoe]

14 minutes ago, DavidMasters said:

I'v never had good luck with Claw Squeezers. Seems like I always leave a tiny Nic where the claws grab the crystal on the sides. I tried placing a paper towel between the crystal and Squeezer and that helped, but still under mag I could see where the grabbers were.

Hi david,  I bet your crystal lift( squeeze claws)  is chinees or cheep chinees, you don,t stand a chance with those. I am pretty sure you find it is not you but the lift,  a bergeon lift will put an end to this pain. Best wishes joe

[jdm]

38 minutes ago, DavidMasters said:

I'v never had good luck with Claw Squeezers. Seems like I always leave a tiny Nic where the claws grab the crystal on the sides. I tried placing a paper towel between the crystal and Squeezer and that helped, but still under mag I could see where the grabbers were.

Check attached doc about fitting snap-in crystals without using a claws tool.

8836_Sternkreuz R19 Snap In Glasses Pages 12 to 29.pdf

[aac58]

Thank you all for your comments and advise! This is a really helpful and friendly place to stay.

Yes, my aim is to change the crystal, I rather learn this technique than polishing, because the results and the low cost makes it better IMO. Also I have several other watches in worst condition waiting for me to learn it!

So I need a doomed glass, it could be a sternkreuz as you can see in this nice blog of exactly the same watch, but not too long ago someone told me that I should be prepared to crash some, so I think I'll start with the cheap ones. I have a (cheap) crystal press, not one of those with many legs, so I guess mine only aplies preassure, not compression. Would I need to apply a lot of force to it? Or does it goes soft to avoid breaks?

And how about the bezel? I guess I should take it off before taking off the old crystal and putting on the new one, right?

I think I'll practice a bit with other cases/crystals I have around my desk before poking with this one.

[aac58]

I think this is a "bezel fit crystal", isn't it? I think so because the bezel has a notch, and that's a sign to recognize this kind of crystals according to an Esslinger video I've seen. Also I've found this other Esslinger video about how to install this kind of crystal, where they install the crystal and the bezel simultaneously. Is that correct for my watch?

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by aac58

[vinn3]

18 hours ago, jdm said:

Check attached doc about fitting snap-in crystals without using a claws tool.

8836_Sternkreuz R19 Snap In Glasses Pages 12 to 29.pdf 4.55 MB · 7 downloads

    dub ( un sharpen )  those claws.   the  R19 is probably better,  but it can scratch the inner side ot the crystals.it you are not carfull.   good luck.  vin

[jdm]

1 hour ago, vinn3 said:

    dub ( un sharpen )  those claws.   the  R19 is probably better,  but it can scratch the inner side ot the crystals.it you are not carfull.   good luck.  vin

No claws at all. Open and read. 

[aac58]

OK, I tried the technique showed on the Esslinger video using another watch I have waiting for replacement. I took the bezel off, then the crystal and then I tried to insert the crystal (the same old one) and the bezel at the same time, but no success. Then I tried first the crystal and then the bezel and both went on fine, so I think I can go for some plexys and go head.

[aac58]

This is the first watch I'm going to try with. Yesterday I took the crystal off and then on with the press and it went ok.

The guy at the forniture (do you use that word in english for watch parts?) shop told me that he uses just his fingers to install this kind of crystals, "bending" them a little to get them in, and he claims that most watchmakers do it so. What do you think? Should I try with my fingers first?

BTW: I love this watch too, and I'm very proud of it because I've restored it from a very poor condition, and now it look fantastic! Only waiting for the new plexi.

Edited August 30, 2019 by aac58

[AndyHull]

In my experience, you may be able to press fit the crystal by hand, and I have done so quite a number of times, but this is not universally the case, particularly on watches with any degree of waterproofing.

Using a crystal press is often necessary, simply because the fit is too tight to be done by hand.

Also, if correctly used, you run less risk of damaging or scratching the new crystal in a crystal press.

Whether fitting by hand or using the press, it is usually less risky to fit the crystal with the movement out of the case (unless the movement has to be fitted first, as is the case with a "front loader" style case).

If the movement is in the case and you accidentally grunch the crystal into the dial and hands, or inadvertently launch everything into space by applying a little too much exuberance and brute force to the task, then the dogs of disaster are almost certainly going to bite you. 

If the movement is not in the case, then you also have a better chance of removing those pesky fingerprints and dust specks that invariably turn up out of thin air the moment the crystal is back in place. Check,  double check, and triple check the dial face, the hands, and the crystal for marks before refitting the mechanism. I have lost count of the number of times I have stupidly omitted this stage, only to be greeted by some crud that has magically appeared from nowhere and is now grinning and laughing at me from behind my nice shiny new crystal. 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by AndyHull

[yankeedog]

wow  a guy that uses his fingers?he must have a very good manicurist.Next time you go in ask him to show you how it's done.As for the Spanish word forniture, it sounds most like the English Word furniture, or muebles in Spanish.Here in the US most people would take their watch to a jeweler, which here at least in my locale is a glitter shop staffed by pretty women who can a best change battery. An actual watch maker is rare, and one who could compress a watch crystal with his finger tips , rarer still. I would not claim that it cannot be done, but I don't think you would get a very tight fit.As for your nomenclature, I wonder if my concept of bezel is the same as yours, On your watch I would call the bezel the metal ring that surrounds the crystal, In this case you should not have to remove it. if however you are referring to what i would call the case, the part that contains the entire watch movement , you should remove the movement from the case before removing or replacing the crystal, it just is better to eliminate the possibility of damage to the hands or dial.

Edited August 30, 2019 by yankeedog
content

[AndyHull]

7 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

I would not claim that it cannot be done, but I don't think you would get a very tight fit.

It can be done, with a little effort, depending on the size of the crystal. Larger crystals are easier as they are more flexible,  but it is indeed next to impossible in those cases where the fit is very tight or the crystal is small and very rigid. Basically if you can push the original out from behind with your fingers, you *may* be able to wriggle the new one in with your fingers.

[yankeedog]

I have also tried this, I just have never been happy with the fit. I like them snug. There are few things as annoying as having a crystal fall out.

[AndyHull]

2 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

I have also tried this, I just have never been happy with the fit. I like them snug. There are few things as annoying as having a crystal fall out.

If it falls out, its the wrong size. Go up .2mm and try again. Having said that, if it was a struggle to managed to get the first one in and it fell out, you are going to really struggle to manage to get the larger one in.

Once fitted, if the new crystal moves at all  when you apply a reasonable rotational force with your thumbs clockwise, then anticlockwise it is the wrong size or wrong type of crystal. It should be a very tight friction/compression fit. Anything less and it wont be remotely waterproof, or even splash proof and will probably fall out.

Also worth pointing out in general is that there are many styles of acrylic crystal, in fact entire catalogues of them.  Some with a lip, some without, some low, some medium and some high dome etc. so be sure to take the time to select as close to the correct replacement as you can.

[aac58]

Well, these are plexi, not acrylic, so I guess they should be easier to compress by hand, I do not know. Basically I'll try to insert the crystal, probably using my press tool, and keep the watch(es) 100 meters away from water.

If everythig goes ok I'll post a pic of the watch, if something fails I won't 

And of course, a big Thank You!

@yankeedog For bezel I understand the same as you, the metal ring around the crystal. There are a few watch parts whose names I know in English but unfortunatelly I don't know in Spanish, mainly in the keyless works and the calendar works. In Spanish "forniturista" is someone that sells watch parts (fornitura), nothing to do with a jeweller (joyero) or watchmaker (relojero) But yes, most people would take their watches to jewellers or to the always harder to find watchmakers. Only watchmakers (and tinkerers like me) go to the "forniturista" 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, aac58 said:

Well, these are plexi, not acrylic, so I guess they should be easier to compress by hand, I do not know.

You can't compress acrylic by hand. As mentioned above you need either claw tool or an hand press (not bench type) with compression dies as explained in the document I had linked above. It is from the leader crystal manufacturer so they know one thing or two about the matter. 

 

[aac58]

Here's the watch with its new look

I hope it stays there for a long time.

Edited August 30, 2019 by aac58

[AndyHull]

Looking good!

BTW I'm going to be pedantic and point out that "Plexi" and Plexiglass are trade names for Poly(methyl methacrylate), which is a form of acrylic. So plexi crystals are acrylic. Similar in many ways to polycarbonate, and often those terms are used (incorrectly) interchangeably.

However, enough of my needless ramblings, the watch looks excellent, good job.

 

[aac58]

3 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

... "Plexi" and Plexiglass are trade names for Poly(methyl methacrylate), which is a form of acrylic...

Thank you! I didn't know that.

And about the job, sometimes is harder to find the information you need than doing it. There's no much info about crystals on the web, and I know there are a few different types of assemblies, so the learning is not ended.