Top & bottom Incabloc chaton size also different?

[paul0]

Hello, I'm one of the people who made the mistake of mixing up top & bottom endstones. I read in this forum that generally, they are different sizes. Thankfully I did not break the Incabloc springs. 

But I'm curious, what are your experience chatons? Are also different size for top & bottom, or are they usually the same?

[Nucejoe]

Usually the same, rarely of diferent radius size. I have several ST96 movements of both types, I guess of diferent variants. Jewel thicknesses;  unknown.

I do switch top/ bottom jewels or replace one or both, even move the bottom jewel housing, for the purpose of staff's axial adjustment.

Further, have ground( on fine sandpaper) the endstones flat surface to repair/ reduce the thickness.

Moving the jewel housing beats shimming/gouging. 

 

[anilv]

Chatons  - some are different, some are not. When cleaning I keep the Balance jewels with the balance and mainplate jewels with the mainplate to avoid mixing them up.

There may be a case where the jewels or chatons have been swapped around, in such cases one cap-jewel will sit loose when the inca spring is 'locked'. This is where you have to sit back and figure out if the parts were swapped around or a part from another watch was used.

Anilv

[Nucejoe]

38 minutes ago, anilv said:

Chatons  - some are different, some are not. When cleaning I keep the Balance jewels with the balance and mainplate jewels with the mainplate to avoid mixing them up.

There may be a case where the jewels or chatons have been swapped around, in such cases one cap-jewel will sit loose when the inca spring is 'locked'. This is where you have to sit back and figure out if the parts were swapped around or a part from another watch was used.

Anilv

Hi Anvil, How would you compensate for general pivot wear or changes introduced like new staff, fork?

I adjust shock springs tension as well, flip the spring over.   Regards

[oldhippy]

To be on the safe side always keep them separate, that way you can't go wrong.  

[anilv]

Generally a well serviced watch will have negligible wear at the balance pivots. If its worn you have to change.

You can get away with changing the depth of the mainplate jewel to address slightly worn pivots but this can cause other problems like harispring touching the balance cock or balance, the rolller jewel not making proper contact with the pallet fork. Also a worn pivot will usually mark the cap jewel as well as wearing the edges of the pivot (not only the tip) so anything other than replacing a balance staff will be a bodge.

Having said that in my neck of the woods (Malaysia) changing a balance staff and service will set you back USD70-100 (unless a balance can be harvested from another movement) so its not really an option for a USD50 watch. I have guys come in with their fathers watch which they want to keep running for occasional use so its not surprising that they opt for a bodge. As it will see minimal use I usually oblige by cleaning the pivots up and try to get the endshake in spec.

Anilv

[Nucejoe]

54 minutes ago, anilv said:

Generally a well serviced watch will have negligible wear at the balance pivots. If its worn you have to change.

You can get away with changing the depth of the mainplate jewel to address slightly worn pivots but this can cause other problems like harispring touching the balance cock or balance, the rolller jewel not making proper contact with the pallet fork. Also a worn pivot will usually mark the cap jewel as well as wearing the edges of the pivot (not only the tip) so anything other than replacing a balance staff will be a bodge.

Having said that in my neck of the woods (Malaysia) changing a balance staff and service will set you back USD70-100 (unless a balance can be harvested from another movement) so its not really an option for a USD50 watch. I have guys come in with their fathers watch which they want to keep running for occasional use so its not surprising that they opt for a bodge. As it will see minimal use I usually oblige by cleaning the pivots up and try to get the endshake in spec.

Anilv

By adjusting the staff I mean correcting for any and all problems you mentioned above, like incorrect  pallet- escape teeth contact etc.We don,t always start with a movement in need of just general service but sometimes to repair the cause of the above mentioned especially if parts are unavailable.

Regards

and I havn,t forgotten my promise to suggestion you made two years ago. I will show off my vintage collection in proper section. 

[anilv]

To do it properly, a worn pivot/parts should be replaced and brought back to spec, with skill and the right tools anything can be re-built but to do it economically is not possible. Hence the bodges exist.

In the example I gave above.. I didn't even bother to put it on a timegrapher.. as long as it ran ok on my wrist for a few days without losing much time and didn't stop when I put it on my bedside table it was good enough.

Anilv