Strange behavior of a Rolex 1575

[Delgetti]

I recently serviced a Rolex 1575. Everything demagnetized, clean and oiled. Finally I did some rounds of dynamic poising and got to this point:

Dial up: 305°, +2 sec

Crown up: 265°, 0 sec (I'm wearing the watch on the right wrist, so crown up is important to me)

Crown left: 265°, +2 sec

 

24 hours later I found this:

Dial up: 305°, +9 sec

Crown up: 265°, +7 sec

Crown left: 265°, +9 sec

 

I don't get it. Amplitude didn't change, poise errors as before, but a faster running watch. Of course I will correct this, but I'm curious and want to understand what has happened here. Any Ideas?

 

[jdm]

First measurement was made fully winded? Should wait one hour before regulation. And the final judgement is after one week on the wrist.

[VWatchie]

9 minutes ago, Delgetti said:

I recently serviced a Rolex 1575. Everything demagnetized, clean and oiled. Finally I did some rounds of dynamic poising and got to this point:

Dial up: 305°, +2 sec

Crown up: 265°, 0 sec (I'm wearing the watch on the right wrist, so crown up is important to me)

Crown left: 265°, +2 sec

 

24 hours later I found this:

Dial up: 305°, +9 sec

Crown up: 265°, +7 sec

Crown left: 265°, +9 sec

 

I don't get it. Amplitude didn't change, poise errors as before, but a faster running watch. Of course I will correct this, but I'm curious and want to understand what has happened here. Any Ideas?

 

Congrats on those great results! However, I'm afraid I have no idea why you get the different rate 24h later. After a service, and if possible, I always try to wear the watch for a couple of days or so before I try to regulate it. I believe the lubrication of the watch needs to be somewhat evenly distributed before regulating. I saw an enlightening article about it here.

[nickelsilver]

Wait, that's after 24 hours of running without winding, or after 24 hours, then wound up again? I would not expect the amplitude to be that high after 24 hours. As for the rate, in my experience that can shift easily as much as you have seen after a service. I usually let a watch run for at least a couple of days before doing final timing. Some calibers are worse than others!

[oldhippy]

Rolex 1575 is an automatic. It should not make a difference about how much power you have running through the movement. Did you use the correct oils, you might have used to much or to little. You need to let it settle down and then test, that will give a good average of the movements performance 

[DavidMasters]

A sunny window close by or any heat source can cause slight variations in viscosity of the oils. Looks good to me, so regulate and job-done.

[Delgetti]

Thanks for the answers. A more detailed description first:

I reassembled, oiled the pallets with 941 and let the watch run for 48 hours dial up. 

Then I did the poising and after a full wind the first measurement on the timegrapher with result +2/0/+2.

Then I wore the watch (normal day in the company) for 24 h. Then after a full wind second measurement with result +9/+7/+9.

 

So maybe the mistake was to let the watch run static in dial up position instead of "shaking" it while wearing? Or the period of 48 hours was too short? Right now the watch is on my wrist and I am observing the "real" gain compared to the atomic clock. 

[oldhippy]

You say a full wind. Isn't it an auto, Or do you mean one turn of the button. You know you cannot wind an auto fully up. 

[jdm]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You say a full wind. Isn't it an auto, Or do you mean one turn of the button. You know you cannot wind an auto fully up. 

At assembly complete the mov't is fully wound at the ratchet screw. That fully winds automatics, and an automatic arm, or a  winder box does as well. 

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, jdm said:

At assembly complete the mov't is fully wound at the ratchet screw. That fully winds automatics, and an automatic arm, or a  winder box does as well. 

You cannot fully wind up an auto. that is why the mainspring has a slipping device. The spring will only wind so far before the action takes place.  

[jdm]

19 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You cannot fully wind up an auto. that is why the mainspring has a slipping device. The spring will only wind so far before the action takes place.  

No disrespect but I don't agree with what you say. When in good working order an automatic can be wound to its designed full capacity to provide the specified power reserve. I call this fully wind.

Then if the same barrel could be wound more for a small fraction of turn if the mainspring was to be hooked to the barrel is irrelevant. An automatic barrel is not designed or specified to work like that. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by jdm

[oldhippy]

A fully wound m/spring in a watch movements it cannot be wound anymore. That can never happen with an auto because of the m/spring, after a certain amount of tension on the spring it will slip in the barrel.   

[jdm]

Yes as I tried to explain above the automatic mainspring will be fully wound to its applicable specifications. No problem OH, we can agree to disagree, that's isn't even the topic subject. 

[oldhippy]

Ha Ha Ha I know. Nothing like a good natter. See how long it take you to wind an auto up using the button. You will give up because your arms and fingers will ache.

[jdm]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

See how long it take you to wind an auto up using the button. You will give up because your arms and fingers will ache.

Well, since you mentioned. I work mainly with Seiko, the 6R15 fully winds to 50 hrs power reserve with about 40 crown turns. The 4R36 has 42 nominal hours and it could take a bit less, I should check.

Sorry again for the thread hijack. 

[oldhippy]

I didn't think Seiko automatic movements wind up from the button? 

[jdm]

34 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I didn't think Seiko automatic movements wind up from the button? 

It depends on the mov't. 7S26 and its direct predecessors don't. All the others do and you might be surprised to learn that they hack also.

[oldhippy]

It was back in the 70's & 80's when I was a watch/clock maker. I'm still learning something new. Thanks. 

[Delgetti]

Well, I don't know the official terms because I'm only an amateur. What I meant saying "full wind" on the 1575 (which is of course an automatic) is: I turned the crown about 40 revolutions so that I'm absolutely sure the mainspring is in the "slipping area". Thats "full wind of an automatic" for me. 

Status update: After 30 hours the watch is 11 seconds ahead of the atomic clock. So the "about +9 result" of the timegrapher seems to make sense. I will observe until sunday evening if this is continuing.