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Dial (face) cleaning?


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I apologise to all who have been horribly scarred by the listing. It was irresponsible of me to have failed to provide an appropriate warning of the graphic content contained in the link. To be fair I was still in shock having stumbled across the listing mmyself. Who'd have thought that searching ETA 2783 could be so dangerous.:blink::blink:

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13 hours ago, Marc said:

This has to be the boldest attempt at marketing a complete b@lls up that I have seen in a very long time.......

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-1979-Bulova-Automatic-ETA-2783-Custom-Art-Watch-Sunburst-Steel-Dial/264251494279?hash=item3d869dcf87:g:9tYAAOSw0lhclftJ

What were they thinking when they did it?

Who are they really trying to kid with that listing?

What in the Bangladesh is that!? Wow! Q: When is a Sunburst a Blackhole?...

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  • 2 months later...

Hi guys

Today I received that nice 1002 dial, probably late 70ies.

Condition is not very good but all the printings are there though some are really faded, and "Beyeler" engraved on the back.

It needs some work before putting it back in its case but I must admit I'm really hesitating on how to proceed and which method would be the more safe.

I know it won't ever look like new again (and that's better for a 50 years old dial) but I would like to clean it at my best.

So here are the pics and feel free to give your opinions about that.

1132280679_01-GENDIAL.thumb.JPG.a7475883d4b6308a96c76fcc147c5582.JPG

 

47602397_02-GENDIAL.thumb.jpg.7ac2456eb6fe81bc073fb959e7341646.jpg

 

1198949846_03-GENDIAL.thumb.jpg.f5bf0a223bce8aa259a96be5c9507bea.jpg

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The dial looks good for it's age. 

From my experience there is really much that can be done to improve the look of a vintage dial. Often what appears to be dirt is instead oxidation and cannot be removed without changing the appearance of the dial. I would stick to using Rodico and Q-Tips dipped in distilled water. If you do anything, be very careful and work very slow.  Keep in mind the printing on the dial is often placed on top of the lacquer and it's the first to go when "cleaning" is attempted.

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There is no definitive answer as some dials are easier to clean than others. What ever you try always try in a small area preferably an edge which is hidden when assembled into the watch case. One agent that sometimes works is human spit try some on a cotton bud and test. 

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2 hours ago, clockboy said:

There is no definitive answer as some dials are easier to clean than others. What ever you try always try in a small area preferably an edge which is hidden when assembled into the watch case. One agent that sometimes works is human spit try some on a cotton bud and test. 

Don't forget to clean it off spit with distilled water or isopropanol afterwards though, as it contains quite a lot of bacteria, which may dine out on the varnish in the long term. The bacterial content of human saliva is the main reason I would suggest that you never blow in to a watch, or breath on to a camera lens to "clean" it.

Slightly more aggressive is white vinegar, which works on certain stains and marks, but needs careful testing with a tiny amount on an area that is not going to be seen. It may dissolve some types of lacquer. Denatured alcohol works on some stains, but again it also dissolves some finishes, likewise acetone, isopropanol, and other organic solvents.  

As has been stated, any action runs the risk of further damage. Even tap water, depending on the mineral content, may leave annoyingly obvious marks when it dries.

Less is often more, so work on small areas at a time, use good magnification so you can see the results of your actions close up,  and if you get the slightest hint that the varnish is lifting, or the finish is being damaged, stop before you ruin the whole thing.

Edited by AndyHull
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Thanks a lot guys ... I'll do some test and show the results.

I really love that dial though it's pretty stained and scratched so I'll try first with Rodico, Q-tips and distilled water and see how it goes.

There is no financial risk as I got it for cheap ($40 shipped) but those 1002 dials don't often show up on the net and are sold for much more, even if they are damaged ... plus I have a nice 5500 case that's waiting for a dial ^_^

 

By the way ... did anyone of you ever drilled an ETA 2840 mainplate to make place for Rolex dial feets ?

I'm asking because I have the case, the low beat ETA and a handset that could fit but I don't think I could ever cut the feets of a Beyeler Rolex dial :unsure:

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  • 2 months later...

Can you post  a picture, always worth 1,000 words? 

Some of what you call dirt can be oxidation or top laquer corrosion, it has no remedy beside full reprint, otherwise you can minimize it working on other details and call it "vintage patina". 

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Unfortunately in the majority of cases the delicacy of a dial's makeup means cleaning is not possible without damage to the features. If you've managed to strip paint away back to bare brass with just water on your test area then yours is even more delicate than most and attempting further cleaning would just damage things even further.

Your dial actually has quite a nice patina so advice would normally be to leave it as is and accept the more vintage look.

There are professional dial reprinting companies as @jdm intimates but this is not a cheap option. Sometimes good condition or 'new old stock' dials come up on ebay or similar but if after a very specific dial this might be a long time coming.

There is a third option perhaps given the design of your dial but it would be dependent on good competency with airbrushing. I could expand further on this but would only recommend it as a route if the 'just leave it as is' suggestion isn't welcome!

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Here's a brand new one for starters which looks to be the same as yours (?) ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAL-TAG-HEUER-F1-HX0266/302649416687?hash=item46774f9bef:g:m1UAAOSwYNxagv4f . Someone else on this forum might have another source other than ebay.

However at this price it's also worth looking out for (non-working) complete watches in good condition. Assuming this is the same as yours then this sold for £41 recently as an example of what can come up if you keep an eye out: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ladies-TAG-HEUER-F1-200m-Watch-Spares-Or-Repairs-/293105389179 

Perhaps one further suggestion is also to consider an alternative Heuer dial. Unless you're set on the pink there seem to be quite a lot of other Heuer dials available. Of course you'd have to double check diameter and dial feet positions but just an idea if all else fails!

Good luck! :)

 

Edited by WatchMaker
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello there.

 

i have acquired this 70s rally style dive watch the other day. 

Not too sure on the history of Avystle, nor how much they’re worth.

i was planning on giving it a clean tonight. 

I might sand the case down to remove some scratches and clean the dial.

It looks like a delicate dial and have never cleaned one before, can anyone advise? 

35ECE75A-BCCD-468B-9D88-76C73C2FBD36.jpeg

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This is a French make of watch and probably has something like a Lorsa 238 in.

I suspect 'Avystyle' relates to some kind of marketing exercise as your watch can be found with other names such as 'Spa', 'Montres de Besancon' and 'Sablier' as per the montage below!

In terms of cleaning I would not recommend it. This would have been at the cheaper end of the watch hierarchy and the dial a thin piece of brass on to which the design would be printed with non-durable paint. Start cleaning and almost certainly you'll find the paint will simply rub off!

How bad actually is the dial?! It doesn't look that bad and whilst you could certainly get rid of any loose lint type dirt gently it could be that after a nice case polish, and even a brand new shiny crystal, you keep it as is!

Avystyle.jpg

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9 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

This is a French make of watch and probably has something like a Lorsa 238 in.

I suspect 'Avystyle' relates to some kind of marketing exercise as your watch can be found with other names such as 'Spa', 'Montres de Besancon' and 'Sablier' as per the montage below!

In terms of cleaning I would not recommend it. This would have been at the cheaper end of the watch hierarchy and the dial a thin piece of brass on to which the design would be printed with non-durable paint. Start cleaning and almost certainly you'll find the paint will simply rub off!

How bad actually is the dial?! It doesn't look that bad and whilst you could certainly get rid of any loose lint type dirt gently it could be that after a nice case polish, and even a brand new shiny crystal, you keep it as is!

Avystyle.jpg

How on earth did you acquire this much info about the watch history in that time? 

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41 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

This is a French make of watch and probably has something like a Lorsa 238 in.

I suspect 'Avystyle' relates to some kind of marketing exercise as your watch can be found with other names such as 'Spa', 'Montres de Besancon' and 'Sablier' as per the montage below!

In terms of cleaning I would not recommend it. This would have been at the cheaper end of the watch hierarchy and the dial a thin piece of brass on to which the design would be printed with non-durable paint. Start cleaning and almost certainly you'll find the paint will simply rub off!

How bad actually is the dial?! It doesn't look that bad and whilst you could certainly get rid of any loose lint type dirt gently it could be that after a nice case polish, and even a brand new shiny crystal, you keep it as is!

Avystyle.jpg

Good question, How on earth did ....... Watch historian?               ,impressivs.

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I've repaired / serviced one very similar to this in the past! I recalled from my brief research at this time that there seemed to be 'variations on a theme' so I was happy to use that and go the extra mile in my reply with that montage! I also recall the dial, whilst attractive, seemed quite delicate and the paint perhaps even slightly porous. I may be wrong of course and the paint is more resilient than it looks but dials are notorious in general for their delicacy! :)

Actually if you do a search for the phrase super datomatic and then look at the images that are returned you can see how I sought out my montage pictures. I can see from this that the phrase seems to have been a trademark of the Mortima watch company for their various watches and you can find an interesting history of the company here: https://mortima.wixsite.com/mortima-watches/full-history

In terms of valuation then, as the old saying goes, this is what someone is prepared to pay for it! In that regard ebay can be your friend. So do this ... i) open ebay ii) search for avystyle iii) in the 'refine your search' / filters select Worldwide (so that all items regardless of location are returned) and iv) ditto select Sold listings (so you see items that have sold). A handful have been sold with the most recent one being at £34 on 1st September.

So not mega money and at this lower end of the scale if you had to start looking for parts to repair it can be uneconomical; but then it depends why you have the watch in the first place. Tastes of people on this forum vary of course but I personally think this is a bit of 70s cool and great to have something in your personal collection that's a bit different!

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18 hours ago, RyanGreerMcGilloway said:

Hello there.

 

i have acquired this 70s rally style dive watch the other day. 

Not too sure on the history of Avystle, nor how much they’re worth.

i was planning on giving it a clean tonight. 

I might sand the case down to remove some scratches and clean the dial.

It looks like a delicate dial and have never cleaned one before, can anyone advise? 

35ECE75A-BCCD-468B-9D88-76C73C2FBD36.jpeg

The movement is likely a Lorsa 237 BCT because it's an automatic with a date complication.

Please don't sand the case down. I've seen a lot of these funky 70s French watches and they all had a chrome-plated case.

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I have noticed that French makers often just printed their brand on a generic watch.For example I have a Pierre Chevelle  gran sport 150 diver.I have seen this same watch with perhaps a dozen different brands on the dial. I agree with the prognosis.treat the dial very gently.don't get any finger prints on it.The Lorsa movement should respond well to service. As for the case..clean gently polish lightly and install new gaskets.

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