Digital Hairspring Timing Tool

[margolisd]

This looks extremely awesome. Does anyone know if these are manufactured and sold? I've been researching it and heard it was prototype...

 

[jdm]

You want to see more awesome hairspring tools?
http://www.greinervibrograf.com

Be well seated before opening the price list.

[AndyHull]

15 minutes ago, jdm said:

Be well seated before opening the price list.

That phrase sets the cliche "parsimonious Scotsman" in me in "to how could I do that better (i.e. cheaper) mode".... 

I presume that it works by twitching that control arm, and "listening" to the resulting resonance, then repeatedly tweaking the frequency of the "twitch" until maximum amplitude is obtained. 

Does anybody know if my presumptions are correct?
 

[HSL]

1 hour ago, margolisd said:

This looks extremely awesome. Does anyone know if these are manufactured and sold? I've been researching it and heard it was prototype...

Which became an product...
http://www.rataspari.com/index.php/products/hairspring-tool

[margolisd]

Oh wow. If I had 3500 Euros... 

I've recently been trying to make a virtual hairspring vibrating tool using my iPhone. It has some potential. The phone glass is a perfect surface to vibrate the wheel on and you can sync it to an animation. It's triggering the balance at the correct time with the correct force that is tricky.

 

 

[HSL]

Looks like a project one can have in the que..

[jdm]

4 minutes ago, HSL said:

Looks like a project one can have in the que..

There are probably hundreds of hours spent on design, prototyping, refinement and production setup. Considering that the price of €3,500 is not out of this world.

[praezis]

This is what I use for hairspring work (and some of the best German watch manufacturers, too).
Price however is just a fraction of the above mentioned, I am sorry... 

Frank

 

spirdose_flde_c.pdf

[nickelsilver]

This is what I use for hairspring work (and some of the best German watch manufacturers, too).
Price however is just a fraction of the above mentioned, I am sorry... [emoji6]
Frank

 
spirdose_flde_c.pdf

That's awesome, is it your invention?

I have a Spiromatic, which is a very cool machine, but it's a curiosity on my shelf- the Luthy tool gets used as it's just simpler for onesies (sometimes with a stopwatch when I do a weird Lecoultre with 20222 or 20944 for example). I'd be interested in the one you posted.

[praezis]

Hello,

I love this Greiner Spiromatik. Years ago I owned one and planned to update the old electronics and replace the huge display box, but gave it to a collector before. Still have another type of the 50s, it works with a pallet-like part that drives the balance under test.

Drawback of these machines is, they are for serial work and must be equipped for the target calibre.

Yes, above was my development. You will get a PM.

Frank

[HSL]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:35 PM, AndyHull said:

That phrase sets the cliche "parsimonious Scotsman" in me in "to how could I do that better (i.e. cheaper) mode".... 

I presume that it works by twitching that control arm, and "listening" to the resulting resonance, then repeatedly tweaking the frequency of the "twitch" until maximum amplitude is obtained. 

Does anybody know if my presumptions are correct?
 

I think there would be several possibilities to make a device like that to work. This sunday I got an hour to myself from my other household duties so I sat down and thought things throug. Eldery devices use a finely tuned spring and balance to compare the oscillation against, when the two balances are in sync you make a reading towards a scale.
But modern equipment probably need something else to detect the spokes on a balance, since it's rotating on its pivot I don't think you could use sound to determine the oscillation. One probly wouldn't want to touch anything on the setup so two methodes comes into mind:

1. Use a Hall sensor.
2. Use light sensitive electronics.

I think a hallsensor would work really good but I don't know how small thiny hairsprings would react to an electric field so I will go for a light sensitive sensor.
Just out of chance I pulled out a TCRT5000 Reflective Infrared Sensor out of my Arduino toybox and made a preliminary test.
I sometimes design high speed odometers for autonomous vehicles so this was a different challenge, to get a device which detect low frequencie movements. A hairspring in some cases oscillate at 18000 A/h which is a frequency off (18000/3600) 5Hz.
The setup was able to detect even lower frequencies so I don't Think the Electronics will be the challenge but the design of the sensor setup might take an hour or two. I plan to use a non polarizing glas from a microscope on which the balance can spin freely.
I only took 20 minutes this time to prove the concept and it will probaly work like a charm so this is something I will put into the projects que for fun things to do with your 3-D printer a dark Nordic Winter night.

 

[AndyHull]

I have some bare opto-isolators that look similar to the one on that board in your picture. I was using them to hack a serial interface in to cheap multimeters a couple of years back and since it was cheaper to pick up ten from china than one from a local supplier, I have quite a number lying unused.

I guess the trick would be to either get the balance to spin between the LED and the photo transistor or bounce the light from below and catch the reflections on the photo transistor.

Using a glass microscope slide sounds like a good option to spin the balance on, with perhaps a blacked out lower surface with a slit in it to shine the LED transmitter light up through. You might need to modulate the light somehow to help distinguish it from any background infra red.

As you say, a project for the rapidly approaching dark winters evenings I suspect.  

[runryder912]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:12 AM, HSL said:

I think there would be several possibilities to make a device like that to work. This sunday I got an hour to myself from my other household duties so I sat down and thought things throug. Eldery devices use a finely tuned spring and balance to compare the oscillation against, when the two balances are in sync you make a reading towards a scale.
But modern equipment probably need something else to detect the spokes on a balance, since it's rotating on its pivot I don't think you could use sound to determine the oscillation. One probly wouldn't want to touch anything on the setup so two methodes comes into mind:

1. Use a Hall sensor.
2. Use light sensitive electronics.

I think a hallsensor would work really good but I don't know how small thiny hairsprings would react to an electric field so I will go for a light sensitive sensor.
Just out of chance I pulled out a TCRT5000 Reflective Infrared Sensor out of my Arduino toybox and made a preliminary test.
I sometimes design high speed odometers for autonomous vehicles so this was a different challenge, to get a device which detect low frequencie movements. A hairspring in some cases oscillate at 18000 A/h which is a frequency off (18000/3600) 5Hz.
The setup was able to detect even lower frequencies so I don't Think the Electronics will be the challenge but the design of the sensor setup might take an hour or two. I plan to use a non polarizing glas from a microscope on which the balance can spin freely.
I only took 20 minutes this time to prove the concept and it will probaly work like a charm so this is something I will put into the projects que for fun things to do with your 3-D printer a dark Nordic Winter night.

 

Do you still have the arduino code for this system you created?

Thanks