Question escapement teeth/ pallet fine oil

[Nucejoe]

ETA recommends General purpose moebius 9010 for escape wheel teeth, I am thinking to try a finer oil.

I appreciae all advice.

[jdm]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

ETA recommends General purpose moebius 9010 for escape wheel teeth, I am thinking to try a finer oil.

A finer oil would not stay in place due to the centrifugal and highly inertial motion of the escape wheel. I think 9010 was recommended before the introduction of better products in terms of adhesion, 941 and 9415, which in fact is a grease. If you want to try the latter send me a PM with your address. 

[Nucejoe]

49 minutes ago, jdm said:

A finer oil would not stay in place due to the centrifugal and highly inertial motion of the escape wheel. I think 9010 was recommended before the introduction of better products in terms of adhesion, 941 and 9415, which in fact is a grease. If you want to try the latter send me a PM with your address. 

Thank you for your response and offer. The name grease is synonymus to stronger drag , which is what I like to reduce. Are there exceptions?  grease with less drag than oil? 

I tested applying kerosene on escapewheel and mixed cheap expired oil with kerosene  for high speed jewel holes, the result is fantastic. Though one expect kerosene unsuitable for the long term and its runny.

Regards

[Nucejoe]

Inertia is not a factor of significance in finite analysis of escpaewheel and rightfully disregarded. Drag on the other hand is the main factor in fine escape mech design, drag impedes the force the fork is to transfer to the impulse jewel.

Escapewheel force is so strong that co-axial makes use of it in both beats of a cycle, to enhance steady performance of the balance wheel, very useful on wrist.

[JohnR725]

I think you'll find the link below interesting.

As mentioned above it used to be 9010 was recommended on pallet stones even Seiko up until relatively recently was using it. Then 941 came into existence interestingly enough it's slightly lighter in viscosity than 9010. Then much later on 9415 classified as a grease for higher frequency Escapement's. 9415 has interesting properties it's a grease so it stays in place but on the impact it becomes fluid. Then if you look at current tech sheets they probably grasp that watchmakers are cheap and it's basically either or for 941 or 9415.

Then I'm attaching a PDF Starting on page 13 is lubrication of a lever escapement. This is where things get really complicated 9415 has a problem if it is applied too heavy. So they explain how it has to be applied very very thinly. You'll also notice another term Lubrifar which is really just Molybdenum disulfide ETA And probably others have been using it for quite a number of years on the escape wheels.

 

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

8645_WI_40_rules for lubrication.pdf

[jdm]

37 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Inertia is not a factor of significance in finite analysis of escpaewheel and rightfully disregarded.

it is applicable to the fluid attached to wheel by virtue of its surface tension and viscosity. The sudden stop and restart of the escape wheel makes so that the mass of the lubricant  tries to continue its condition of motion, or lack of it. The less adhesion, the more mass,  the more instantaneous acceleration of the wheel (characteristic of high-beat mov't) , the more the fluid will tend to leave the pallet face. and spread around. Not good.
I would not underestimate the research and science that is behind current watch lubricants. Even if you can get perfectly acceptable results with these of one or two generations ago that doesn't mean that the accessible alternative isn't better.

Edited August 19, 2019 by jdm

[nickelsilver]

9415 is a thixotropic grease. It reduces drastically in viscosity instantly at the shear point when objects it's applied to are in motion, and returns to it's thicker state when at rest. It's good stuff.

[Nucejoe]

17 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

9415 is a thixotropic grease. It reduces drastically in viscosity instantly at the shear point when objects it's applied to are in motion, and returns to it's thicker state when at rest. It's good stuff.

Thank you @nickelsilver ,  drastic reduction in viscosity, just what I was hoping to find.

Regards