Main spring slipps

[arkobugg]

Cheers Mates!!

Im doing service on a Alpina 582, and the main spring slips over in the barrel.

I have bought new main spring, but it stills slips over inside the barrel.

Can somebody tells me how  the original main spring looks alike??

I had to buy on from CousinsUK, but I would like to see how the original spring was sat togheter insiden barrel.

The spring was missing so I only have the barrel...

 

 

 

[nickelsilver]

It's automatic so the mainspring should slip. But not until there are about 6 turns of wind. You should use braking grease on the barrel wall.

[arkobugg]

Had not asked if I could wind it six times, and the spring slips....

This slips on the first turn, of course....

 

[oldhippy]

This movement is a bumper automatic. The main spring is supposed to slip, some are attached to a break spring, the break spring should slip with the mainspring.  Old autos are sometimes fitted with an extra short piece of spring which is much stronger than the normal spring that fits inside the barrel, that acts as a break, the normal auto spring is attached to that. You shouldn’t be able to wind up an automatic. Here is a photo of a modern auto mainspring.  

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, arkobugg said:

Had not asked if I could wind it six times, and the spring slips....

This slips on the first turn, of course....

 

If that is the case. Then take a good look at the inside of the barrel and check for wear. You should be able to wind it many many times before you hear or feel the spring slipping. 

[nickelsilver]

Perhaps the inner coil is too large and it's not hooking on the arbor, or it's in backwards. A photo of the barrel with cap off will help.

[arkobugg]

Okay, then I understand a lot more:

1. The spring I got from cousins have not with the extra part, like on the photo.

2. The inside the barrel is pretty woren, lots of strips inside.

Suggestions what todo?

Find new spring?

Find new barrel?

 

[arkobugg]

2 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Perhaps the inner coil is too large and it's not hooking on the arbor, or it's in backwards. A photo of the barrel with cap off will help.

Nope, I always check with a plier to see if the arbor is hooking up....

[oldhippy]

1. The spring I got from cousins have not with the extra part, like on the photo.

If that is the case, you don't have the correct spring. I would ask for an auto mainspring and try that first. The barrel is most likely obsolete. 

[Nucejoe]

If it slips on the first turn, I would suspect barrel arbor hook or poor spring wrap around the arbor.

[arkobugg]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

1. The spring I got from cousins have not with the extra part, like on the photo.

If that is the case, you don't have the correct spring. I would ask for an auto mainspring and try that first. The barrel is most likely obsolete. 

Yes, that is right, I have orderd wrong spring, thats it.....  thanks oldhippy!!! 

[Nucejoe]

Bridle is missing or dosn,t look like it had one to begin witn. Manual wind springs lack large bridles. 

There is also the possibility of this having come with two pieces mainsprings like Mido 816.

Strips on the barrel wall work to your advantage, keeps the bidle from slipping too easy. Strips on the bottom of the barrel should be flattened with sandpaper.

[HSL]

I took some minutes to look at what spring might fit in your barrel. Looks like the 582 has the same spring as the 584 and then you according to BestFit can use the same spring as the ETA 2820 . 
As a curiousity the same spring is also used  in:

ALPINA 584
ETA 2820
ETA 2820R
ETA 2822R
ETA 2823
ETA 2823R
ETA 2828
ETA 2828R
ETA 2829
ETA 2829R
ETA 2834
ETA 2834R

Maybe this information can get you into the right track..

 

[arkobugg]

As usual, great help from you all!!   Thanks a lot everybody......   :-)

[vinn3]

Quote

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   sliping main springs and breaking grease.    seems like it is more trouble than it's worth.  why not  just anker the spring?    VIN

[nickelsilver]

 

When the spring is fully wound the auto system will still try to wind and something will break. The slipping spring is essentially a clutch, the braking grease makes sure it doesn't slip too much.

 

 

 

[vinn3]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

 

When the spring is fully wound the auto system will still try to wind and something will break. The slipping spring is essentially a clutch, the braking grease makes sure it doesn't slip too much.

 

 

 

    the same can be said for ancord main spring.  just know how to wind it.   have you heard of a "lifetime main spring"?  to each his own,  cheers.   vin

[nickelsilver]

    the same can be said for ancord main spring.  just know how to wind it.   have you heard of a "lifetime main spring"?  to each his own,  cheers.   vin

Well the automatic system only know to wind, not to stop when it feels too much resistance.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, vinn3 said:

When the spring is fully wound the auto system will still try to wind and something will break. The slipping spring is essentially a clutch, the braking grease makes sure it doesn't slip too much.

You cannot wind an auto fully up. 

[vinn3]

  yes it's a clutch,   when it wears down you can still wind it some.   originally patented by Movoto.  how can you tell which watches "have the clutch".   vin