Can I use my jewelling tool to replace a hairspring collet?

[VWatchie]

I am preparing myself for learning more about and doing hairspring work. To this end, I’m gradually getting the required tools and knowledge. I know how to remove the hairspring from the balance wheel by prying the hairspring collect off the balance staff using “wiggling” hand levers. I’ve tried this a couple of times on some scrap movements and it works well.

Now, here is my question; how do I get the hairspring collet back onto the balance staff? In the only video about this that I’ve seen, a staking tool/set is used. Is a staking tool required to replace the hairspring collet, or could I possibly use the Seitz jewelling tool that I’ve just bought (still waiting for it to be delivered, see the picture above)?

And while on the topic, is a staking tool and a jewelling tool two completely different tools for completely different jobs, or do or can they overlap in some respects? I'm thinking that I could possibly place a staking block on the faceplate of the jewelling tool and then select one of the "bits" with a hole fitting over the balance staff and then just press the collet down? Bad idea? Sorry for the sloppy terminology (I still need to learn what pushers, reamers, anvils, and so on, are)!
 

[nickelsilver]

Staking tools and jeweling tools overlap quite a bit. In general I use a jeweling tool anytime something needs to be pushed, a staking tool when a hammer is involved. The jeweling tool can offer a lot more control over what's happening.

You should check that the pusher has a hole deep enough to pass the top of the balance staff, sometimes they are surprisingly shallow. Ideally use a stump that just passes the roller table. Your Seitz should do a great job of resetting the hs collet.

Many just set the balance on a bench block and press on with tweezers, obviously this risks a slip taking out the upper pivot and/or the hairspring.

You can never have too many stumps and pushers for the jeweling tool. I probably have a couple hundred of each and still make specials regularly.

[VWatchie]

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Edited August 2, 2019 by VWatchie
posted to early...

[VWatchie]

@nickelsilver

Well, that's just wonderful news, plus extremely interesting and useful information! Without the knowledge and awareness that pushers can be shallow, I might very well have ruined a balance staff to learn it.

When you say "top of the balance staff" I suppose you mean the pivot of the balance staff on the hs side!? I'm not being picky about terminology. It is just that I'm still new to this so I really need to make sure I get the stuff that I read.

I must confess I'm not quite able to figure out what a "stump" is in this context. I suppose it's like a hole in a staking block where the roller goes? Will this "stump" be a part of my coming jewelling tool shown in the picture, or is it a separate tool that the jewelling tool can be supplemented with, or...?

Finally, does "roller table" = "Impulse roller"? The only "watch school" I ever attended was watchrepairlessons.com and Mark Lovick calls the disk (or table, I suppose!?) of the double roller where the impulse pin sits "impulse roller".

Sorry, for all the questions in a single post, but I feel quite excited about this!  And again thanks! 

[JohnHutchins]

Stakes, stumps, punches, pushers and anvils:

This is how I understand the difference in terminology between a jeweling  tool and a staking set, which are related tools.
A pusher or punch in a jeweling set is called a stake in a staking set. What is called an anvil in a jeweling tool is called a stump in a staking set.

Will be interested if anyone else has a different understanding of the terminology. 

 

[JohnHutchins]

This picture shows what the pushers and anvils look like.
Numbers 100, 150, and 200 are anvils. 

[VWatchie]

I'd even be interested to know if anyone can confirm @JohnHutchins' understanding of the terminology! 

Edited August 3, 2019 by VWatchie

[nickelsilver]

15 hours ago, VWatchie said:

@nickelsilver

Well, that's just wonderful news, plus extremely interesting and useful information! Without the knowledge and awareness that pushers can be shallow, I might very well have ruined a balance staff to learn it.

When you say "top of the balance staff" I suppose you mean the pivot of the balance staff on the hs side!? I'm not being picky about terminology. It is just that I'm still new to this so I really need to make sure I get the stuff that I read.

I must confess I'm not quite able to figure out what a "stump" is in this context. I suppose it's like a hole in a staking block where the roller goes? Will this "stump" be a part of my coming jewelling tool shown in the picture, or is it a separate tool that the jewelling tool can be supplemented with, or...?

Finally, does "roller table" = "Impulse roller"? The only "watch school" I ever attended was watchrepairlessons.com and Mark Lovick calls the disk (or table, I suppose!?) of the double roller where the impulse pin sits "impulse roller".

Sorry, for all the questions in a single post, but I feel quite excited about this!  And again thanks! 

Yes I was talking about the balance pivot. And roller table is the same as impulse roller. John is right with the terminology, stumps and anvils are the same, stakes are the "pushers" in a staking set, and pushers are pushers.

The bottom right 6 pieces in your Seitz are stumps. You'll definitely want more. Horia sets often come with a stump for every pusher. A nice thing with Seitz (and Favorite and Chatons SA) is the spindle that carries the pushers has a 4mm hole, the same as the locating diameter of the stumps (also most staking set stumps), so the stumps can be also used as pushers. I do this all the time.

 

Including a pic of "some" of the stumps and pushers I have around. The middle rack with 50 or so stumps are the ones I use the most. Also a Horia with a stump in as pusher.