Jump to content
  • 0
VWatchie

What’s wrong with this ETA 2824-2 movement?

Question

Just got me a used HAMILTON Khaki Field watch housing an ETA 2824-2 for what I felt was a reasonable price on eBay ($304/€269/£242 including shipping). The plan is to wear it myself as I really like the silver dial and case.

Putting it on my timing machine I get nothing alarming except for in the 9 o’clock position where it looks like the movement is going crazy (two pictures in this position).

I’d really want to know what’s going on and what I can do about it?

y4mK967Tvde6a_0uBBJXU8HYjedpymjqMgSA4evc

y4mGSZpCA6CSdq_NwZDSSCIy7PdHNvt1DAiXBB9R

y4mTvAdhJQ89v7pbS4N9rrEocSjbLoNjWXLUCpoy

y4mf2zkwGnB315ax1nxItt46UVQX-3P_-HkxfOpm

y4mlFs3RSWL2V4TiLolu9z4qOnuxVWQo_MqSJEP-

y4m1qUqE58MurNhIBIjkpfLg1e-xi3NiXjkhn2_v

y4mpwp6CuK0qO5OpR4GXEGMy-us34axcT_0FSAOx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Someone told me the 9 o'clock position is a clear sign of over banking! I thought I would never live to see it as I always seem to have problems with the opposite, i.e too low amplitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
7 hours ago, JohnHutchins said:

What does it sound like?

9E94AC15-B5F9-4488-B3C3-3730CA848D1E.MOV

Thanks for the audio demonstration!

I wish I had listened to it before I started taking it apart. I too often seem to lose amplitude after I've serviced my movements :unsure: (need to figure this out, I'm still a noob) so I may not be able to recreate the problem. Anyway, once I've finished the service I'll put in on the timing machine again and we'll see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 7/14/2019 at 8:40 AM, VWatchie said:

Thanks for the audio demonstration!

I wish I had listened to it before I started taking it apart. I too often seem to lose amplitude after I've serviced my movements :unsure: (need to figure this out, I'm still a noob) so I may not be able to recreate the problem. Anyway, once I've finished the service I'll put in on the timing machine again and we'll see what happens.

how did you get on with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
38 minutes ago, AP1875 said:

how did you get on with this?

Thanks for asking! I'm still waiting for an opportunity to reassemble it. Work, family, and a ton musts are my priorities for the time being, but I'll report back once I'm done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Just an update! Assembled the watch a couple of weeks ago but couldn't wind it properly manually. After quite a bit of head-scratching, I eventually realized the clutch and winding pinion are intermittently slipping against one another. I haven't had the time to look into it in detail but I suspect that the tension of the yoke spring is too weak, or that the teeth of the clutch and/or the winding pinion are frayed.

Anyway, I'll be back with an update on the re-banking problem as soon as the winding problem has been solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 9/4/2019 at 10:53 PM, VWatchie said:

Just an update! Assembled the watch a couple of weeks ago but couldn't wind it properly manually. After quite a bit of head-scratching, I eventually realized the clutch and winding pinion are intermittently slipping against one another. I haven't had the time to look into it in detail but I suspect that the tension of the yoke spring is too weak, or that the teeth of the clutch and/or the winding pinion are frayed.

Anyway, I'll be back with an update on the re-banking problem as soon as the winding problem has been solved.

I was going crazy with the same matter. I took everything apart twice. I could set the time and change the calendar but not wind it.

In the end it was just a very little tiny thing. 

The yoke "tail"was not attached to the spring. :)

Edited by Giumollo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 9/5/2019 at 9:15 AM, anilv said:

If you're taking the dial off, check the rate in all positions with just the bare movement, ie without dial, date stuff, auto mechanism.

Anilv

Thanks for your input @anilv! So, do you mean that this could affect the re-banking (or whatever it is that I'm seeing on the timing machine)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 9/9/2019 at 5:58 AM, Giumollo said:

I was going crazy with the same matter. I took everything apart twice. I could set the time and change the calendar but not wind it.

In the end it was just a very little tiny thing. 

The yoke "tail"was not attached to the spring. :)

I could determine that it was the teeth of the clutch and the winding pinion that was frayed, so I'm now waiting for spares. They weren't so bad that I couldn't wind at all, but when enough tension (and not very much) was built up they would slip. This in turn, and this is actually a question, made the crown wheel slip against the ratchet wheel (or so I believe) making the mainspring unwind uncontrollably in a spit second. Anyway, I hope these winding problems will be gone when I've replaced the clutch and the winding pinion. Or what do you think?

BTW, the ETA 2824-2 is the only movement I've seen (haven't got a lot of experience) having this "yoke tail" instead of a yoke spring to put tension on the yoke. I can see that there's quite a risk to forget it in the assembly process, especially if it is the first time you service a 2824-2. Anyway, I studied Mark Lovick's assembly video for the ETA 2824-2 prior to putting it together and took careful note of it. I'm now doing my third ETA, calibre 2472. Overall, my impression of the 2824-2 and now 2472 is that they are rather unconventional, at least when it comes to the train of wheels and the keyless works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
15 hours ago, VWatchie said:

I could determine that it was the teeth of the clutch and the winding pinion that was frayed, so I'm now waiting for spares. They weren't so bad that I couldn't wind at all, but when enough tension (and not very much) was built up they would slip. This in turn, and this is actually a question, made the crown wheel slip against the ratchet wheel (or so I believe) making the mainspring unwind uncontrollably in a spit second. Anyway, I hope these winding problems will be gone when I've replaced the clutch and the winding pinion. Or what do you think?

BTW, the ETA 2824-2 is the only movement I've seen (haven't got a lot of experience) having this "yoke tail" instead of a yoke spring to put tension on the yoke. I can see that there's quite a risk to forget it in the assembly process, especially if it is the first time you service a 2824-2. Anyway, I studied Mark Lovick's assembly video for the ETA 2824-2 prior to putting it together and took careful note of it. I'm now doing my third ETA, calibre 2472. Overall, my impression of the 2824-2 and now 2472 is that they are rather unconventional, at least when it comes to the train of wheels and the keyless works.

I am only a beginner and have not serviced many different caliber but those, that I have, I did it for several times.

6497/8 and a seiko nh35a, this last one a broke a barrel tooth and still waiting for a replacement. 

For the 2824, I've been using chinese copies before I service a tissot with a 2824 that I own.

Here I already destroyed a Balance ( I don't think it was my fault. The quality of this movement is really miserable. Costs about 25,00€), lost a click spring e broke a escape wheel pivot in the watch cleaning machine. But now I can assemble and disassemble everything with my eyes closed.

Where I still have a lot of problems is with the Balance Jewels and oiling the escapement. 

My readings for rate and amplitude are always ridiculous. It starts with +75, then I clean the jewels and replace them. Then a have a -50, after that I oil the escapement and achieve +20. Then I disassemble the balance, clean it and do it all over again. After 5 hours I get some acceptable results. And this happens sadly everytime....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I would make a habbit of checking the bare movement on timegrapher before adding anything on, specially the complications, furthure let run for a several hours to get a more even lubricant distribution specially on escape teeth. 

So far as the excess amplitude at 9 up position, check side shakes throughout the escape mech, that is escape wheel plus fork plus ballance staff arbors, also pallets for misalignment or having moved in fork slot.

You can slightly pull the yoke spring apart to increase pressure on winding pinion and clutch.

Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Checking the rate of the watch without all the other stuff is how you eliminate problems. If it runs fine in all positions with only the escapement running then you know the problem is elsewhere. It could be a simple case of a wrong screw on the date works which is slightly too long and touches the escapement...Maybe a worn datewheel creating additional friction....etc etc

Anilv

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • To quote measuretwice from a previous posti g: In the common vernacular, hollow ground is used to describe the resulting parallel No matter how many years one has done something is always good to try to understand what others mean. Searching the Internet alsio helps https://toolguyd.com/lee-valleys-parallel-tip-screwdrivers/
    • DONE! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    • If you've used properly fitting hollow ground blades for larger fasteners you know they can handle a lot more torque than a regular screw driver without damage fasteners.   The difference is so pronounced you just should not work on antique machinery/equipment with slotted fasteners without using hollow ground blades or you will botch up the fasteners. However, relative to the current debate, two things occur to me 1)  To get the performance noted above, the bit has be a very good fit in the slot.  My set has I think 85 or 90 pieces.  Without that selection and ability to find a perfect fit, their advantage pretty much disappears.    Is a watchmaker going to have a similar selection to ensure that perfect fit and futz about constantly checking microscopic differences in fit?  2) Performance is superior, but the metric is torque handling ability.  Does this even matter in watching making?   My limited experience suggest no.  otoh, if you are  regularly damaging heads of screws with taper blades than yeah, figure out how to get an assortment of hollow ground bits that work for you....but otherwise, why worry about it?   imo there is no debate to be had on what is superior, the debate is simply whether it matters given the torques involved. A young guy I know worked for Roger Smith for few years (talk about a learning opportunity!).....I'm curious on he was taught    
    • Here is my quick video for making a leather belt for a Watchmakers Lathe. Enjoy.       Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    • yes sir, forgot to mention "cone shape",  the  ajuster is a good thing,  i have over tightened the staff in the past.  this one is "floating" almost 1/16 inch !   i decided not to tighten the staff.  it's back together and keeping good time. Thanks,  vin
×
×
  • Create New...