Jump to content

Keyless Works Problem

margolisd
 Share

Recommended Posts

margolisd WRT Addict

margolisd

Posted
Posted

I have a tricky keyless works issue which I can't seem to solve. This is an Omega 1030 movement (I've posted about it before). As you can see from the video, when you try to set the hands clockwise it goes "click click click" and the hands don't move. Anti-clockwise is fine. 

It's too difficult to film but I can see it is the clutch wheel teeth slipping over the intermediate wheel which drives the motion works. The intermediate wheel is attached to the date setting yolk. The story of this repair so far has been:

When I noticed the issue I found a broken tooth on the intermediate wheel. I had to replace the entire date setting yolk. But the issue remained.

Next I thought the cannon pinion was too tight. I tried a few techniques to loosen it but in the end I just replaced it. It's a brand new omega part and it feels just right, not too tight and not too loose. But the clicking remains.

So then I thought the clutch wheel was worn. I noticed it's not an original part. I replaced it. And also the date setting yolk spring as I thought maybe the tension was wrong. But still no luck!

The only other idea I have is that the clutch lever / set lever are worn and they're not quite pushing the clutch wheel up against the intermediate wheel enough. But before I mortgage my house to pay for more parts I thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas. Thanks for reading!

 

IMG_1697.jpeg

IMG_1701.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
margolisd WRT Addict

margolisd

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Oh. I solved it. Two minutes after posting. The indicated plate has lost its spring. It's not pushing down enough on the date set yolk. A little bending with stout tweezers seems to have done the trick.

The process of posting here and documenting things makes you think very clearly about the problem. Just looking at my own photos gave me the idea! :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon:

IMG_1697.jpeg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
margolisd WRT Addict

margolisd

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Okay. Back to the drawing board. The problem has returned. I think by bending the plate slightly I was just gripping the date change yolk more. But the underlying problem was still there. The only thing I can think of is that the indicated area is worn and the lever is not being pushed as far left as it needs to go...

 

Untitled.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HSL Distinguished Member

HSL

Posted
Posted

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

IMG_20190528_185145.jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

What are you using to lubricate the setting parts?

1 hour ago, HSL said:

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
margolisd WRT Addict

margolisd

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 hours ago, yankeedog said:

how is the stem?worn or out of square?

The stem is new and original! It engages the clutch wheel perfectly (also new).

1 hour ago, HSL said:

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

HSL. Great photo, thank you. It's so hard to tell on the positions because we may be talking a hair's width. Gentle pressure on the lever pushing it more left does stop the clicking (but I guess that's obvious!).

You see the line I've indicated on this picture? On my watch there is a slight gap. Is yours the same? Can you measure it?

28 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

What are you using to lubricate the setting parts?

9501 :)

25 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

No, that's not the cannon pinion. It's actually in the centre.

IMG_1699.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HSL Distinguished Member

HSL

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

lol.. no that's just a residue from my little investigation think it is the sweep second pinion which hold that lower gear in place when setting the time. I just have a habbit to mark the area I work with now I forgott to take it away..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HSL Distinguished Member

HSL

Posted
Posted

Yes there is a distinct difference and you can see it by the arrow by the setting lever too, had a look at two more Genevas with 1030 and both are identical to my first picture. Your just seems to be worn down. 

Image1.jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
margolisd WRT Addict

margolisd

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks but I located the parts for hardly anything on eBay. It has helped a lot. It's still not perfect. Weirdly, it was better with the old clutch wheel. I think the cannon pinion must be a tiny bit tight. I added some more grease which also heloed. Now the only time it clicks is when you set the hands far enough forward to advance the calendar wheel. But it's hardly noticeable. I think I'm going to call this completed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
JONICURN Member

JONICURN

Posted
Posted

I had this problem also.  Same symptoms.  Turned out i had both springs switched.   They are different links and when placed wrong, it wont allow the yoke to fully advance the clutch wheel into the setting wheel (click, click, click).  Make sure the longer spring is on 6 o'clock side and short spring is on 12 o'clock side.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 years later...
PaulC New Member

PaulC

Posted
Posted

Hi sorry to bounce this back but I had identical issue with the 1012 calibre. I had the springs wrong. Swapped them and now the hands wind cleanly one way but click click the reverse. I wondered if this was how it’s designed or do I still have an issue?

cheers Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Randy55
      Introduction

      By Randy55 · Posted

      Welcome to the group Stirky. You can search for just about every subject in the craft here. Don't be afraid to ask if you can't find the answer that may have already been covered ( some ad nauseum LOL ). You don't have to buy Bergeon to get good quality. There are many decent mid-range tools available that will last you a lifetime. Cousins would be a good place to start . Cheers from across the pond ! Randy
    • Jon
      What are these Seitz B-Jewels?

      By Jon · Posted

      I picked up a similar amount of these jewels some years ago in a watch and clock fair. Every now and then they come in handy. This week I've got a rubbed in bombe jewel in the balance cock that is cracked and needs replacing. Very handy to have a vintage assortment of these type of jewels!
    • Stirky
      Diagram for 6497 motion works

      By Stirky · Posted

      Thanks Jon.
    • Jon
      Diagram for 6497 motion works

      By Jon · Posted

      Great diagram with the teeth and pinion count. Simple way to reduce the speed of the hour wheel by the 12:1 minute wheel. Genius and yet so simple. Always good to reinforce the principal by what you have done in your drawing. Keep doing that. I had a drawing on my wall for years showing me this which is very similar to the drawing you have done. Here's a formula to work out the beats per hour of a watch movement. The movement's BPH is dictated by the wheel teeth and pinion count and the hairspring being vibrated to the correct BPH by finding the pinning up point on the hairspring using a vibrating tool.  The reason in the formula there is X2 on the top line is because there are two pallet stones.
    • DDean
      Incabloc Lyre Spring & Low Earth Orbit

      By DDean · Posted

      So I just wanted to say "thank you" again.  The angle is the key bit it seems and yes, it did basically just fall, or float, back into position when I got it lined up just right. I had meant to add that now that I see how it goes in, I totally see how it came out in the first place, and that whomever cloned the original movement didn't pay much attention to the fine details around the setting or how it interfaces with the balance cock or the "rings" on the regulator and/or stud carrier arms.
×
×
  • Create New...