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aac58

How to clean incabloc jewels?

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I only recently dared disassembling a Seiko's incabloc. When I saw the jewel out of the cap I got amazed by the tiny size it has, I just didn't know how to clean it and just put a drop of naphta over it, waited a few minutes, dried it, put the smalles drop of oil I was able and put it back into the movement again.

My amateur cleaning procedure is to use naphta first and rinse with IPA, using little jars in the ultrasonic, and small baskets for the little parts as wheels, barrel arbor etc. But I think that if I put those jewels into the baskets I think I am going to lose them, as it's hard for me to hold them with tweezers.

Is cleaning jewels in the ultrasonic the way you do? Or is it recomendable to clean them manually? If so, how do you do hold them and what products do you use?

I'm thinking of sticking it on a bit of rodico and use a soft brush with naphta and then IPA. Would this way be correct?

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I just have a tiny jar with acetone in it.

I drop the incabloc setting into it, leave it for a minute or two then swirl them around in the jar by gently swirling the jar and lift them up into a glass bowel that has watch paper in it to help wick away the acetone. If needed I hold them with tweezers and give them a puff or two from my blower.

Some times you can find the cap jewel stuck into the fitting due to old oil 'gluing' it in, so it may need longer in the acetone to separate, and if it is really stuck and after several cleaning still won't come out you may need to use an old balance staff to push it out by fitting it through the jewel hole and pushing on the cap jewel.

Once cleaned be sure to inspect the cap jewel as it may still have old oil stuck to it. If it does get some peg wood sharpened to a point and hole the cap jewel with tweezers and gently rub off the old oil with the peg wood, then clean it again and inspect and if still dirty repeat.

Mark has a great video on YouTube showing you how to oil and assemble incablock settings.

I try to keep rodico away from cleaning solutions as you may find the naphta will start to disolve it and leave you with even more mess to clean.

I only use acetone to clean the balance and cap jewels as it is pretty nasty stuff, I use naphta (Shelite in Australia) as my rinse after cleaning with a watch cleaning solution, but if you are just starting out naphta will do for it all.

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Drop the endstones on a large White sheet of paper or card- board. (Most suitable would be card board 1.5 mm thick with honey comb surface)

You can lift the endstones by pushing on it with your index finger, flip over etc.

Get the flat surface of endstone on the paper, put your index finger on top of the endstone, pour some lighter fluid on the card board, rub the endstone on the paper where you have the lighter fluid, push as hard as you like on top of the endstone.

Lift endstone with index finger, get astonished by how shiny and clean is the surface of the endstones. Drop the stone into a small jar of lighter fluid, take out with a teaspoone. You will then see how much residue dose lighter fluid leave on the pieces we call rinsed.  Ready to oil.

Joe

 

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Thanks! Great answers, I need to read them again to be sure I understand everything (English isn't my mother tongue) and practice them in the next few days.

So you recommend acetone instead of naphta for these jewels?

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I do and I know others that do too, but not everyone agrees.

Acetone breaks down dried oil better than naphta, but is nasty stuff and very flammable. I keep my bottle of it in the shed and oil put about 10 mils in a small jar to use inside

One Dip solution would be best, but its very expensive.

You will find there is no 'one way only' to do things, but many ways all with their pluses and minuses, you just need to choose the way that works best for you.

The most important thing is to check the endstone is actually clean before oiling and assembling

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4 hours ago, vinn3 said:

    acetone works good, but leaves a film that is easly removed with isopropinal.  why naptha?  vin

Naptha is inexpensive, dissolves all manner of hydrocarbons, and dries quickly with little residue. Its quite harmful to use in enclosed spaces, so care must be used. 

J

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I do not use lighter fluid, but naphtha which is petroleum ether 40-60º, not as pure as the one you recomend but easily available where I live. Maybe the ether you mention is also available near my home, I should try to find it, but there are so many products, A couple of days ago a watchmaker told me to use toluene, and I know I can get it too, so probably I'll give it a try when I run out of naphtha.

 

nafta-eter-de-petroleo-40-60-.jpg

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3 hours ago, jdm said:

Why always the talk of lighter fuel, that was right only in place and times where nothing better was available.
You can use petrol based in a purified form that leaves virtually no residue

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petroleum-Ether-80-C-100-C-500ml-Petroleum-Spirit-Shipped-Same-Day/142061406816

BE VERY CAREFUL with this product.  If you think naptha and acetone are flammable, ether will curl you toes.  There were all sorts of nasty operating room fires when ether was used as a general anesthetic.  Old surgeons still quake at the idea of ether.  Static electrical sparks are a real danger for an ether saturated atmosphere!


RMD

Edited by rduckwor

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3 hours ago, jdm said:

Why always the talk of lighter fuel, that was right only in place and times where nothing better was available.
You can use petrol based in a purified form that leaves virtually no residue

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petroleum-Ether-80-C-100-C-500ml-Petroleum-Spirit-Shipped-Same-Day/142061406816

   don't be cheep,  buy 99 % pure chemicals.

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4 hours ago, rduckwor said:

BE VERY CAREFUL with this product.  If you think naptha and acetone are flammable, ether will curl you toes.  There were all sorts of nasty operating room fires when ether was used as a general anesthetic.  Old surgeons still quake at the idea of ether.  Static electrical sparks are a real danger for an ether saturated atmosphere!

What I posted above is PETROLEUM ETHER, that is essentially purified naphta | gasoline | petrol | benzine - the stuff you put into spark engines.
What you are referring to is DIETHYL ETHER, which is something very different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether

Quote

don't be cheep,  buy 99 % pure chemicals.

I'm not good at chemistry but each and any time chemicals are discussed here I'm surprised how much confusion is promptly made, starting with anglo speaking people invariably swapping benzine for benzene. Now for you information, when it comes to classifying  petrol derivatives, you don't look much a "cheapness or purity", but other properties like boiling point, in this case 80°.
However, I don't recommend to you try to boil if to check seller's promise.

Quote

A couple of days ago a watchmaker told me to use toluene, and I know I can get it too, so probably I'll give it a try when I run out of naphtha.

You got poor advice because toluene unlike (napha | gasoline | petrol | benzine) is quite toxic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene_toxicity
All we're trying to do here is to dissolved some old oil, no need to be creative.

Then if you want to remove oxidation on plated brass neither alcohol or petroleum based will do, need an ammonia cleaner for that.

Edited by jdm

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

What I posted above is PETROLEUM ETHER, that is essentially purified naphta | gasoline | petrol | benzine - the stuff you put into spark engines.
What you are referring to is DIETHYL ETHER, which is something very different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether

I'm not good at chemistry but each and any time chemicals are discussed here I'm surprised how much confusion is promptly made, starting with anglo speaking people invariably swapping benzine for benzene. Now for you information, when it comes to classifying  petrol derivatives, you don't look much a "cheapness or purity", but other properties like boiling point, in this case 80°.
However, I don't recommend to you try to boil if to check seller's promise.

You got poor advice because toluene unlike (napha | gasoline | petrol | benzine) is quite toxic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene_toxicity
All we're trying to do here is to dissolved some old oil, no need to be creative.

Then if you want to remove oxidation on plated brass neither alcohol or petroleum based will do, need an ammonia cleaner for that.

    since the "common names" of chemicals have changed thru the years ---  ASK A CHEMIST  or a pharmasist.    if all else fails,  enter the name on line.   the imporant thing - avoid mixturs or delutions.  gasoline with 10 % alcohol is different than leaded gasoline and unleaded gasoline.   rubbing alcohol might have 30 % water and will not clean as well as Ethel alcohol.  pure isopropinal is used in the avation industry as a cleaning  agent.  i have cleaned a few radial engine parts and oxegen masks with it.  " be happy in your work".

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

Have you ever heard of CAS number? it lets one identify chemicals without asking around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_Registry_Number

 

1 hour ago, jdm said:

Have you ever heard of CAS number? it lets one identify chemicals without asking around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_Registry_Number

 chemical abstracts,  yes.  used that before there was an internet.  thank you for reminding me ! the point is,  what is the best solvent for removing grease - and oil.   and what is avaible.  tri cloro etheline  was the best.   no longer available.   ill stick with 95%  iso propaline alcohol .   vin

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On 5/26/2019 at 7:28 PM, vinn3 said:

 " be happy in your work".

Inhale enough of the variety of cleaning product fumes you'll be very happy :thumbsu:

Fwiw, lighter fluid, pegging, followed by a dip in IPA and air blower do the necessary for me.

Mild ammonia solution for brightening parts if required after a naphtha bath and before IPA.

If I ever pick up a proper watch cleaning machine I'll get posh and use proper watch cleaning solution.

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Well, the common chemical names do promote confusion. So I apologize for my confusion.  Long ago, I had my organic chemistry and learned that the IUPAC method of naming was the cat's pajamas.  Common names are confusing.

 

RMD

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Great advices here, thank you very much. I think I'll keep using naphtha in the next try, rubbing the jewel against a sheet of paper as Nucejoe suggest, and then a soak of IPA, and see what happens. I hope it gets clean enought.

I'm still breathing deeply before I dare to do it again :startle:

Edited by aac58

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Just to clarify, 

Rub the endstone onto the nafta you spread on the paper.

Spread your paper on a hard surface, since you want to push hard on endstone and onto the nafta. Once oil is removed, rub on dry part of the paper.

Needless to say, tiny pieces of paper will aggregate around the premiter of the endstone, which you may not notice, that is why you drop in IPA , to clean the debrie. 

No tweezers, no pegwood or any handling that may cause the fidly endstone fly accross the room. 

I really should post a video, specially for oiling and installation after the clean, No tweezers there either.  

To drop the endstone, keep thumb on shock spring, unloc the spring, flip the movement over, if the stone dosn,t want to come out, tap on the other side of its housing.

Joe

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So, I have just done it! At least I've done it the best I could, but there is something I haven't done. I've used watchmaker paper to rub the endstones but I haven't give them the last IPA rinse because I was not sure I could "fish" them later. I have to admit that I feel very bad a few hours before I disassemble the incablocs, everything else now looks so easy.

The watch is running, but I haven't adjusted it yet, as I do not have a timegrapher and not much silence at home. Anyway I could look for a few seconds what the open source TG says about it. The watch was stopping frecuently and now, after two full cleans, it seems to run better, maybe it could stop sometimes when it is still on a table, but it could also be that I haven't wind it yet.

The beat error seems to be... hummm... not as good at it should. Can this be the reason for it to stop sometimes? I'll try to adjust it when I can.

BTW: 281º it's like too much for a Seiko 7005 (or 7025) Maybe the readings are nonsense at all.

7005-8060-TG.jpg

Edited by aac58

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Ok, I've adjusted the watch a little bit, now it seems to be better. Until today it was with good time keeping, but it could stop randomly, sometimes after 48 h of running, sometimes a couple of times in 24h.

I'm going to see if now that problem is gone or if I have to clean/assembly/oil it for a third time!

7005-8060-20190605.thumb.jpg.46b138c69b3b6675f5d95f41020f69aa.jpg

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On 5/27/2019 at 4:12 AM, anilv said:

Acetone will dissolve the shellac on the pallet fork and roller bearing. Keep these parts away from it.

Anilv

heard that too......it will give problems

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