Epilame / Fixodrop

[clockboy]

I have never used 'Fixodrop" but I have read a few posts of late recommending its use. I read somewhere that it can be used on the end of oilers to enhance the drop of oil being applied. 

 

So my questions are

 

1) Is it really that good.

2) How do I apply it & where.

 

 

Your thoughts guys would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

Somewhat hijacking your question I find this an interesting subject in that it's not always that visible on the normal service tech sheets. The reason I'm pointing this out is we usually try to follow whatever the manufacturer recommends but if we are unaware that the parts have been surface treated to prevent the spread of oil and we use the oil they recommend without the surface treating the oil is much more likely to spread.

 

So I'm attaching some images two of them are from an Omega 1957 guide on lubricating their watches. Even though it's a lubrication guide is spends quite a few pages on cleaning the watch because that is a requirement before lubricating. So in the fifth jar of their cleaning machine they have the epilame. Then I've attached some images from that guide telling you what they would use it on and the write up. On the write up I've circled what they're not using it on. Then you'll notice there's a discrepancy between modern surface treating which is the surface treat the pallet stones and their recommendation to not.

 

Then ETA used to publish manufacturing guides for their watches in addition to their tech sheets. Manufacturing guides are really interesting in that they tell all sorts of technical specifications. So I've attached the interesting part for us and highlighted where surface treating is being used. What I find interesting is the balance staff is treated.

 

Then some links one explaining about the various substances. Another explaining of the cautions. The problem with the solvent is when it evaporates the parts get cold there is a possibility of condensation which conceivably could lead to rust.

 

http://watchmakingblog.com/2011/07/29/one-hazard-of-epilame/

 

http://hiro.alliancehorlogere.com/en/Under_the_Loupe/Epilame

 

Then on page 7 of this document the special bottle that you're supposed to have aMicrophone off microphone offnd how to use it.

http://www.bhi.co.uk/Documents/certificate/Tech/PractLub.pdf

 

Than as Eta surface treated the balance staff to prevent the spread of oil incabloc Uses it on their jewels and they talk about it at the link below.

 

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/huilage.php

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clockboy]

Thanks John,

I will experiment to see the benefits 

[StuartBaker104]

Please let us all know how you get on... and how long your first £85 lasts before it evaporates away.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative? I bought a nice Record 9ct gold watch for less than that recently, and the watch didn't need an extra £100 for a special bottle, just £20 for a new strap.

S

[clockboy]

Must ad

 

Please let us all know how you get on... and how long your first £85 lasts before it evaporates away.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative? I bought a nice Record 9ct gold watch for less than that recently, and the watch didn't need an extra £100 for a special bottle, just £20 for a new strap.

S

Must admit Stuart I did not realise the cost of this magic elixir.  It will have to really make a difference for a purchase.

[JohnR725]

So in this first link somebody is doing experiment between the different brands although they did leave out one of the brands.

 

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/zenith-epi-kote-vs-fixodrop-epilame-treatment-1310626.html

 

Then as far as costs goes it varies. Towards the bottom I have the comparison of commercial products and Zenith appears to be cheaper.

 

Then there are other ways to do this for instance there was once a watch cleaning machine that was rather unique as it used isopropyl alcohol which it distilled with each use. Then it had a special heating chamber to vaporize stearic acid. I had read a patent on the vapor process and it's supposed to be really nice in that the coating is very uniform and Much thinner than by dipping. The other problem with dipping is as the bottle is evaporating the concentration is increasing. Then I know someone that was in a school situation where the cost of the commercial was expensive and they were making their own solution I'll have to send an email off and inquire as to how well that really worked and see if I get a formula.

 

So here are links to the various companies that make this stuff.

 

http://www.zenithsolutions.net/productlist.htm

http://www.lrcb.ch/produits/produits.html

http://www.lrcb.ch/produits/epilames/presentation_epilame_eco50.pdf

http://www.epilamisierung.com/index.php/en/

 

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/epilames

 

So for price comparison you'll need a bottle of this for $135 plus the nifty bottle for applying it at $78 dollars.

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product1015.html?_ga=1.247603968.686915199.1434009467

 

Then if you using the eyedropper method for the pallet stones this is a must have

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product5586.html?_ga=1.84618270.686915199.1434009467

 

Then Zenith is cheaper  For both the solution and the special jar.

 

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product9513.html?_ga=1.45304739.686915199.1434009467

 

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product8704.html?_ga=1.121316495.686915199.1434009467

 

 

 

 

 

 

[canthus]

I got small quantity of  Fixodrop from here (France).

 

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/kd89fr?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

Good reliable supplier and good for small quantities of expensive oils!

[fuse63]

So I have been getting a couple of watches back that are running perfectly fine after I service them and then a couple of months go by and the clients call me up to say they either stopped running or they are running too slow or too fast. Could i be because I am not using Epilame on the cap jewels that the oil is spreading and causing these problems? I just find it funny that they run perfectly fine when i put them on my timing machine and then i happen to get them back. Thanks

[clockboy]

Maybe. I had an issue with my Rolex (3135) I serviced it and it worked great for 12 months + but then now & again the auto side did not keep the watch wound. I was confident that it had serviced the watch correctly & with the correct oils. The only thing I did not do was to Epilame the reversing wheels of the auto. I stripped the auto works cleaned and lubed & Epilamed the reversing wheels and it has worked perfectly since for over 2 years +. I have never used it for cap jewels and had no issues. Some recommend using it on the pallet stones run it for a while, then  strip again clean the escape wheel and lube the pallet stones again. I have done this but could not see the benefit.  

[rogart63]

Sounds more like to much oil? 

[east3rn]

Hello. I am considering buying a bottle of fixodrop and I found that there are many options regarding the quantity.
Since I am hobbyist watchmaker, I don't service a watch very often.(Couple of them in a month)
In this case, would it be okay to purchase the smallest amount of fixodrop(1ml)? 
One more thing. Is there anything else I should get to apply the fixodrop to my pallet fork? 

[JohnR725]

As a hobbyist the usual recommendation is it's a waste of money.  Usually the fluid is taken out of the bottle and either goes in the special bottle at the link below or the eyedropper bottle. One milliliter isn't going to be enough to take out of whatever it comes in. If you just dip the party in or dip the pallet stones then really fast you might Be able to get by but I think this is a be a waste of money. The problem is the solvent they use is extremely volatile Every time you open the bottle a little bits going to evaporate it just isn't going to last very long.

Then there are other alternatives that it's cheaper the third link has a cheaper option.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/epilame-bottle-double-chamber-for-fixodrop-150.009.html

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/kimble-amber-glass-bottle-with-dropper-150.006.html

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/zenith-405-epi-kote-epilame-30ml-420.130.html

[clockboy]

I use fixodrop on watch reversing wheels. I also use the special fixodrop application bottle. I have tried it on pallets. However you have to apply it just to the pallets stones. Then run the watch for a while then remove the balance, pallet and escape wheel and re-clean the escape wheel and re-assemble. I did this with a couple of watches but did not see any benefits. 

[east3rn]

On 7/16/2018 at 12:19 PM, JohnR725 said:

As a hobbyist the usual recommendation is it's a waste of money.  Usually the fluid is taken out of the bottle and either goes in the special bottle at the link below or the eyedropper bottle. One milliliter isn't going to be enough to take out of whatever it comes in. If you just dip the party in or dip the pallet stones then really fast you might Be able to get by but I think this is a be a waste of money. The problem is the solvent they use is extremely volatile Every time you open the bottle a little bits going to evaporate it just isn't going to last very long.

Then there are other alternatives that it's cheaper the third link has a cheaper option.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/epilame-bottle-double-chamber-for-fixodrop-150.009.html

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/kimble-amber-glass-bottle-with-dropper-150.006.html

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/zenith-405-epi-kote-epilame-30ml-420.130.html

Wow thank you for your recommendations. I will consider getting those instead.

[east3rn]

On 7/16/2018 at 3:15 PM, clockboy said:

I use fixodrop on watch reversing wheels. I also use the special fixodrop application bottle. I have tried it on pallets. However you have to apply it just to the pallets stones. Then run the watch for a while then remove the balance, pallet and escape wheel and re-clean the escape wheel and re-assemble. I did this with a couple of watches but did not see any benefits. 

Would applying the fixodrop on the pallet stones with an oiler and letting it dry work?? If fixodrop is inside a bottle, how can I be sure only pallet stones is affected?

Edited July 17, 2018 by east3rn

[clockboy]

I have read there is problems when applying fixodrop to the whole pallet.  I applied it to the an oiler and dried gently with warm air being aware too much heat will dislodge the shellac. I read somewhere some use a dropper.
However as I stated in a previous post I see no significant benefits so I longer bother treating the stones. 

[JohnR725]

I thought you might find this link interesting

http://watchmakingblog.com/2011/07/29/one-hazard-of-epilame/

Then two separate images attached. 1957 Omega's guide on oiling watches covers cleaning and surface treatment. Here you get the answer to why some stuff isn't treated. Then Omega in 2012 showing dipping preferred. I think the eyedropper method would work fine. Then of course immediate warm air drying.

So surface treatment prevents the spread of oil and has been used by watch companies for a long time. This means they can use lubricants that have a likelihood of spreading because are relying on the surface treatment. Which means if we follow their lubrication guidelines without surface treating conceivably we will have problems.

As an alternative for the pallet fork you could try this strangely enough it's not actually listed as an oil.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/moebius-9415-for-pallet-jewels

[clockboy]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I thought you might find this link interesting

http://watchmakingblog.com/2011/07/29/one-hazard-of-epilame/

Then two separate images attached. 1957 Omega's guide on oiling watches covers cleaning and surface treatment. Here you get the answer to why some stuff isn't treated. Then Omega in 2012 showing dipping preferred. I think the eyedropper method would work fine. Then of course immediate warm air drying.

So surface treatment prevents the spread of oil and has been used by watch companies for a long time. This means they can use lubricants that have a likelihood of spreading because are relying on the surface treatment. Which means if we follow their lubrication guidelines without surface treating conceivably we will have problems.

As an alternative for the pallet fork you could try this strangely enough it's not actually listed as an oil.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/moebius-9415-for-pallet-jewels

That was the article I read. I found no benefit after applying the Epilame to the pallets. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by jdm
Please don't include pictures in quoting

[StuartBaker104]

Does anyone know of a uk source for the Zenith epi kote? Seems by far the cheapest of all the options, but I can't find a way of getting it here for a reasonable cost 

[JohnR725]

I have another alternative ECO 50 Found the link below: zero idea where it be purchased or any of the other lubricants they have at that site either.

 

http://www.lrcb.ch/produits/produits.html

[jdm]

I have re-titled and featured this topic.

[clockboy]

I have been dealing with a PM re-using Fixodrop (Epiline)and I was also going to recommend purchasing the dedicated bottle until........... "Cousins" the price quoted £134.95  absolute madness.

[chadders1966]

Don’t forget a lot of us have to pay 20% VAT on top, so call it £162. I made my own with an unused (;)) sample bottle and a small metal screw top container, it seems to work fine.

Stephen

PS it’s epilame :)

[clockboy]

Don’t forget a lot of us have to pay 20% VAT on top, so call it £162. I made my own with an unused () sample bottle and a small metal screw top container, it seems to work fine.
Stephen
PS it’s epilame

Sorry about the spelling & yes alternative methods will be needed. I purchased my one A few years ago I now wish I had purchased dozens


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[oldhippy]

Why is it so expensive? I have never used it. I didn’t see the need to have it.