Slipping (out of position) clutch on AS 1171

[MrRoundel 88]

I had posted this earlier, but realized that I was encroaching a bit on another thread. Apologies to Rogart63 for doing so.

I also realized that the question might be better off standing on its own, as it might be a common issue.

This is an update on AS1171 problem child.

I ended up cleaning the hairspring for the second time on this one, as it was running very fast. I didn't see the coils sticking, but figured it must be that. I had evaporated out of OneDip, so I just ran it through my standard cleaner. It wasn't enough. Since I had lost another yoke spring (Prior to my using the plastic-bag trick), I ordered it over da Bay.

Using the bag trick, I got the yoke spring in position without too much problem. A problem I have had with this watch has been that inserting the stem is a royal pain. It's a fifties vintage waterproof case that has the integrated pipe, upon which the waterproof crown fits. This makes it so the movement must be set in the case without the stem.  You then set it in through the pipe.

What happens is the clutch ends up shifting inside its channel in the plate. When you insert the stem the clutch invariably gets sideways and won't allow the stem to get in position. It's really trying my patience, as the watch is finally running great, and I'm being thwarted on the last step. I tried the stem once with the movement out of the case and it sent right in. It must have something to do with the lack of side to side play between the pipe and waterproof crown. Regardless, it's very aggravating indeed. I thought about removing the crown and using the bare stem, but I had used Loctite on the crown and it wasn't being easy on coming off.

The movement's design is much like other AS ebauches, it's just got a bad attitude.

Does anyone have any tips on dealing with this sort of stubborn clutch/stem mating? Maybe using a short dummy-stem to set it in the case to keep the clutch aligned properly? Is it best to put watch in setting position or winding position in such situations? Thanks ahead of time.

Edited May 1 by MrRoundel
Added crown removal thought.

[MrRoundel 88]

As I reassembled the movement and pondered the "whys" of it all, I had a thought. There is a spring on the left side that is set into a recess on the top of the pillar-plate. I am placing the finger of the clutch-lever over the top of that spring. This would apply apply upward pressure on the lever, which is the same direction that the yoke-spring presses. I'm wondering if I am supposed to set the finger end of the clutch-lever under that spring (Red arrow) on the left (May be possible), so it is applying downward pressure to the lever, the opposite of the yoke-spring. Is that where my problem lies? Thanks all. Cheers.

Note:The image of the AS 1171 on Dr. Ranfft's site, appears to show that I have been doing it right, that the "finger" should be above the spring, applying upward pressure. :-/

Edited May 1 by MrRoundel
Added Ranfft comment

[yankeedog 230]

Yes they can get sideways on you pretty easily.very frustrating.let's see if I can explain how I do this.assemble everything correctly. With the stem in place. With the keyless works in the winding position loosen the retaining screw and remove the stem.This gives the parts less wiggle room.Place the movement in the case.. while reciting the proper chants and incantations very gently insert the stem..You will get it.just be patient.

[MrRoundel 88]

Thanks, yankeedog. The first time I went to assemble it, I did have it in winding position. The second time I tried it in setting position and it indeed seemed worse. I'll go back to winding position, light some incense, and change up my chants. I appreciate your taking the time to respond. Cheers.

[MrRoundel 88]

I ended up having to remove the crown and then "back it in" to the case with the stem in place. For some reason, the new seal on the new crown was inhibiting the necessary leeway to get the dang thing set. Once it was out of the case, and not subject to the stresses of the new crown seal on the pipe, the stem set in. I was able to get some small pliers to hold the stem while I tightened the crown onto it. It was really on there last time. Hopefully I'll get the same solid hold this time.

It was making me crazy. Thanks again for you help, yankeedog. Cheers.

Not a bad looking little booger. I ordered a Hadley-Roma band for it today. It should look good.

 

[MrRoundel 88]

Of course now the little booger is running and stopping. The stem feels like it's not going solidly into winding position, so I suspect that it's not completely disengaging from the intermediate wheel, etc., and dragging on the movement. Bloody 'ell. I may have to get a new stem for it, an keep it a bit longer. Either that or find a deeper crown that won't get bottomed out.

First step: Pull it from the case and see if she keeps running,. Second step: New stem,. Third step: Dynamite.

[yankeedog 230]

Breathe deep. you should be able to observe the winding operation with the back removed.if it is winding properly consider that you may have a bad mainspring. they can fool you quite easily.listen closely as you wind, you may hear a tick indicating that the spring winds for a bit then slips.additionally if it winds  forever and never gets fully wound , that wound be another indication. you could also wind it with a screw driver to test your hypothesis..the watch is a beauty. it is worth your effort

Edited May 4 by yankeedog

[MrRoundel 88]

Thanks, yankeedog. I could feel that it wasn't allowing a complete disengagement. It wouldn't get a solid "click" when pressed in for winding position. I ordered another stem for it. I'll cut it a touch longer to allow more inward movement. It won't look as good, due to it's being further from the case, but it should work.

BTW: The mainspring is new, and is not slipping.

And thanks for thinking the little watch is cool. The hands and case are in pretty darn good shape, with minimal pitting, for the type and period. It'll look good with the new band.

 

Edited May 5 by MrRoundel

[yankeedog 230]

you could also shorten the tube a wee bit.

[MrRoundel 88]

OK, that's a great suggestion. Don't raise the bridge, lower the river! It would look better that way, wouldn't it? Thanks!

[yankeedog 230]

it would sit more flush, and since you aren"t getting full insertion it might solve your problem

[Deggsie 97]

That’s a nice looking watch. The two tone bamboo dial especially sets it off. Hope you get the keyless works running smoothly and all problems resolved.


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[MrRoundel 88]

I ended up getting a new stem. I figured I'd try that before I filed down the tube. Well, so far so good. I got rather lucky, as I snipped the stem one time and got it right where I wanted it. Any shorter I would have been shortening the tube anyway. The wind/set transition could be smoother. However, since it's my own watch, I'll just live with it.

The watch is running now, and seems to be keeping good time over the past hour or so. Unfortunately, I did leave a little of my signature scratch on the dial up by the one. I was putting the case over the movement to protect the dial and let go of it too early. Figures, right? If the watch really is fixed this time, I'll be happy, as I have very little into it money-wise. Time-wise well, that's another story,. Thanks to all for contributing opinions, tips, etc. Cheers.

 

 

[Nucejoe 533]

Drive the tube into the case, instead of filing the tube, you would need to polsih the tube if you file, just so it wouldn,t tear the rubber seal in the crown.

The screwdriver shown in the pic next to your watch is the tool you need. Insert the screwdriver in the tube, its handle wont enter the tube, tab on the screwdriver on its head to dirve the tube in.

Another approach is to drop bits of metal in crown hole where stem screws in, bits of solder, aluminm foil, screw the crown on stem.